High End Audiophile thread

Discussion in 'Soundcards, Speakers HiFI & File formats' started by ROBSCIX, Jan 2, 2013.

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  1. Rebel975

    Rebel975 Guest

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    Just put the FL/FR speakers in the living room on stands yesterday. I have to say- just having the stands makes it seem way more 'high end'. Plus, we can now move them to the correct angle for surround sound.

    These Dayton SSMB24 stands are rock solid. Heavy steel construction, but the poles can also be filled with sand for extra weight.

    We are attaching the speakers to the stands with industrial strength velcro tape. :nerd:
     
  2. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Finally got an Oppo 105, its a great machine, and some new speaker wire.
    Here are the results of the sound quality tests.

    Tests performed:
    Oppo CD vs Oppo USB input + JPlay vs USB drive direct into Oppo
    Best of above vs Minimax Tube DAC plus (with crap 2metre USB cable)

    The Oppo CD has a tiny tiny edge over USB drive into the Oppo, its miniscule, hard to call.
    JPlay with Oppo USB DAC has the edge over the Oppo CD player, there is a little bit more air to the sound, a little more detail, its not a lot though, it took a few comparisons to confirm how much.

    Comparing JPlay between the Minimax USB DAC and the Oppo USB DAC, the Minimax wins.
    There is quite a bit more air and detail on some things, on others its a little bit.
    This result confirmed by a non audiophile friend who came round in the middle of testing.
    (need to find why it sounded worse round my brothers now, maybe his laptop is a bad USB music source)

    So JPlay really can hold up to a very good CD player, and thats without a special JPlay PC setup!
    Just how good a CD player it can compare to remains to be seen.


    The Oppo 105 is a very nice sounding machine, it holds up very well to the specialised DAC that costs more, and isnt shamed at all.
    The Oppo is awesome for surround movies, hugely immersive, tons more detail, I've never heard my subwoofer sound so tight either.
    The PQ is excellent, it brings out new separation in colours such that you'd think it would saturate them, but they just look great.
    As a PC surround sound card for gaming, its magic, really good.
    The downside with PC use is that its maximum output in surround over ""HDMI"" is 96KHz, it is supposed to increase to 192KHz with 5.1 (vs 7.1).
    But it still sounds better than anything I have heard before for movies and gaming.

    So a big plus for all 3 !
    (Jplay, Oppo 105, Minimax MKII)


    Another plus goes to Van Damme UP-LCOFC Hi-Fi 6mm (square mm) speaker cable.
    Its fat as heck and see through, it looks great.
    2 runs of 2.7metre are fed to both my front speakers, bi-wiring them.

    There is quite a difference compared to my old wire setup (2mm straight copper for bass, 1.5mm Van Damme blue studio OFC for treble).
    With the Van Damme Hi-fi 6mm, bass is a LOT deeper and stronger, treble is almost sibilant, there is so much extra going on.

    I tried a single run to both speakers and there is a loss of detail/imaging in the mid treble.
    Theres a definite advantage to bi-wiring.

    This wire is cheap enough at approx £7 per metre and I doubt you will ever want or need to change it.
    To buy direct, it comes on reels of 50m.
    Luckily, you can buy it by the metre from Amazon, everywhere else sells it on large reels.

    All I can say is wow!
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  3. angershark

    angershark Master Guru

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    Is there any EQ and separate crossover adjustment for the sub output, for the Oppo 105? I've thinking of picking up this unit instead of a new receiver.
     
  4. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    There is no EQ.
    You can select which speakers you are using, which are small/large, enable/disable the subwoofer and set the crossover frequency that the small speakers pass bass to the subwoofer.
    Edit: forgot you can also set the distance and attenuation for each speaker independently.

    If you disable the subwoofer, it can send the LFE and sub bass (routed from other small speakers) to your front pair.
    This works really well if your front pair can go deep.

    Its a great pre-amp if you want a direct connection to your power amps for max quality, that is exactly how I am using it.
    Its missing a few features, but its very good!

    Something reported not to work by Oppo, feeding the optical input with compressed 5.1 works fine.
    Oppo have reportedly said to some owners that it can only do 2.0 via optical.
    I have tested and it does do 5.1 correctly.

    The HDMI interface is incredibly lag free, I am happily surprised.
    It feels as if I am directly connected to the monitor.

    Sound quality is exemplary.
    It can play a plethora of different video and audio codecs, very surprising.
    It can play them directly off a USB drive, but with it being USB 2.0 the highest bitrate Blu Rays rips stutter, they play fine using the optical disk drive (ie James Bond Casino Royal does this).
    However, they should play fine over a network share, I havent tried this yet.
    All other video I have tried seems to just work!

    JPlay over USB sounds a little bit better than the CD player, if you want to get that little bit of extra out of your audio.
    Thats not to say the CD is bad, it is very good, its just that JPlay is amazing!

    There is a dynamic range control if you need to keep the volume down at night.

    To get surround sound from stereo TV /pre-encoded surround in stereo etc, there is a DTS Ne0:6 mode, this works very well.

    the headphone out will cut off the speakers when used and has a separate volume control level.

    It can downmix from 7.1, down to stereo if needed.
    Mine is set to 5.1, so all 7.1 material will downmix to 5.1

    Picture quality is excellent as are the video features.
    There are 2 HDMI ins and 2 outs, all can be configured to your needs.
    You can change the brightness, contrast, hue, saturation. sharpness and noise reduction independently.
    Each HDMI out has 3 different presets.

    There is a power off timer.


    There are a TON of positives, here are a few issues I have found.
    HDMI via PC:
    In 7.1, it can do 96KHz/24.
    In 5.1, it can do 192KHz/24.
    But the PCs HDMI driver doesnt expose the 192KHz mode, it is still at 96KHz when I set the Oppo to use 5.1 and set the PC to use 5.1

    You cannot select different audio outputs while using a video output.
    ie, you cant route you PC through it with HDMI while using the USB audio out.
    If you select HDMI, it will use HDMI audio, up to 96KHz/24bit 7.1 channels and you get video too.
    If you select USB audio, you get up to 2.0 192KHz/24bit, but no video. For this you will need to use another gfx out from your PC to your display.


    A couple of niggles, but nothing show stopping.
    The only thing you will need is a second way to route video to your monitor if you want to use the USB DAC or SDPIF in, while using it as a display output.
    I'm getting another DVI to HDMI lead and will set my PC to dual display.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013

  5. angershark

    angershark Master Guru

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  6. Rebel975

    Rebel975 Guest

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    One thing you can always expect from Mufflore is a long and detailed post. He said "Oppo" 15 times in those two posts. :nerd: lol
     
  7. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    haha.
    I get a bit carried away, i also like to be clear what it is I am referring to.
    There can be a fair amount of ambiguity when talking about multiple devices.
     
  8. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Missed your post, soz.
    Are you happier with your speakers now?
    when you first built them, you seemed to be underwhelmed.
    Btw, if there is a lack of bass from them, push them nearer the back wall.

    Rather than using velcro to attach the speakers, use Blu Tak as a quick fix, a spot in each corner.
    Its pretty good stuff!
    I use rubber tap washers, they are ultra cheap and very effective.

    Spike the stands to the floor.
    This will transfer vibrations away from the speaker that can interfere with the cones response.
     
  9. Tom F

    Tom F Ancient Guru

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    Spent about 10 hours yesterday listening to tunes on a pair of these:

    [​IMG]

    We were running them with the sub I built a couple of years ago - they're part of my mate's studio setup and just sounded amazing. Best speakers I've ever heard that cost sensible money

    Bargain of the century. Less than a £1k for the biamped active version and they sound as good as a fair few £2k5+ monitors that we listened to.

    Just unbelievably good - a lot of fun with the sub too :)

    Only downside is that they make everything else sound really lame by comparison lol
     
  10. Rebel975

    Rebel975 Guest

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    The ones on the stands are just the Dayton RS621's in the living room. I do like how they sound, though they are significantly cheaper than the S7's I built for my game room. They don't produce very much bass, but I will be adding a subwoofer soon anyway.

    As for the S7's - yes, I have come to appreciate them. It's just that I was expecting the kind of difference I got when going from $20 speakers to the RS621's to match going from RS621's to S7's... unfortunately, it wasn't like that at all. The difference is subtle, yet there. I wonder what I'll use for a center/rear speakers with these S7's as my FL/FR though? Do I absolutely have to have a matching C/RL/RR, or can I mix/match?

    The only thing I really don't like about my S7's is the finish. Same with the old TC Sounds Epic 12" subwoofer that I have. Turns out I just really suck with spray paint. I can't get any kind of an even coat at all. I'm most likely going to sand them down and re-paint them with Duratex. It should be much easier to work with.

    Speaking of subwoofers- I've ended up changing my mind, and decided to get a UXL-18 instead of a Dayton 18 HO. The UXL's are out of stock at the moment, but I've put a deposit on one for when they come back.

    I am also seriously considering buying a NU6000DSP and putting the 3000DSP in the living room. This would give me the potential of running 2 UXL-18's in my game room in the future. The Epic 12 would be moved to the living room. The NU3000DSP can easily drive two of those.

    I got my first complaint from a neighbor a few nights ago in the form of some banging on the wall. I can't wait to see what they think of the UXL-18. Perhaps it's time to move to a detached home? I think so- which is why we're seriously looking at buying a house. :)

    Here's a shot of the 4 cu ft box I'm constructing for the UXL. Just need to fill/sand some more. Don't mind the glue stain - that'll sand out. I had a little mishap and didn't wipe it up soon enough.

    I constructed it with nothing but masking tape and some weights. lol :nerd:

    [​IMG]

    What's wrong with using velcro? It seems to be holding very well so far. But yeah, the stands are on spikes. They actually came with spikes.

    Here's a shot of the living room as it is right now. The TV may appear to have a slight tilt to it in the photo, but I assure you it's level. I spent probably an hour measuring, re-measuring, etc. before I drilled the first hole for the wall mount. Same with the speaker stands - they absolutely are level, but the photo makes it not look like it.

    (BTW- drilling the holes for the wall mount was really nerve wracking. The stud finder kept warning that there was a power line nearby, but also mentioned that it could "just" be static electricity, and to put your hand on the wall to make sure. I lucked out and didn't get electrocuted - it was a false positive :grin: lol)


    [​IMG]





    What speakers are those?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013

  11. Tom F

    Tom F Ancient Guru

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  12. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Some of the differences will be more apparent with high definition equipment and media.

    If you can get a speaker that uses the same drivers that will help.
    When I was running Mission 754 speakers they didnt match at all well with the Acoustic Energy Evo centre and surrounds.
    I took the tweeters out and replaced them some Acoustic Energy ones, it made a world of difference, they matched really well.

    Good luck with that, practice makes perfect :)

    LOL, thats some serious power!
    You might need to upgrade the wiring to your wall sockets to take the current if you use them to their potential.

    For sure, you need to move lol.
    To a country house within 5 acres of trees.

    Without strong compression of the joints, it may allow some extra resonance or allow a route for air to escape.
    when the glue has fully cured, it might be an idea to use another layer of glue.

    Speakers need to be mounted solidly, otherwise they will move.
    This is in reaction to the cone movement, taking energy from the sound and also the movement will affect sounds that come later as well.
    Velcro cannot mount speakers solidly, it allows movement.
     
  13. Rebel975

    Rebel975 Guest

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    Yep - I put a good helping of glue on each of the seams on the outside and on the inside. In fact, on the outside seams I actually ended up building them up with a bit too much glue. I then spent a couple hours sanding it back down to make it flush. Better safe than sorry. That said, I will likely give the inside seams another shot of glue.





    This velcro is pretty strong ("industrial strength"), but I will take it into consideration. Thanks.
     
  14. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    cool :)

    It isnt the strength that counts, its the ability to make even micro movements.
    You've gone to great lengths to make the platform the speaker stands on as rigid as possible, even using sand to maximise the inertial damping, then allowed the speakers to move on top of it.
    :p
     
  15. Rebel975

    Rebel975 Guest

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    You make a good point. When time/money allows, I will buy some blu tack.

    So, I asked Madisound if they had a MTM version of the S7 kit, or if they could recommend a matching MTM for a surround sound setup. They didn't, but offered to design one for me. In 5-7 days I'll have the design and a quote for pre-built crossovers.

    I figured I'd build 3 MTM's and use them for my FL/C/FR, and use the normal S7's for the RL/RR. This would be way in the future though- I can't afford it right now. At least I'll know what to do, though.
     

  16. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Cool but as mentioned, even better is rubber tap washers, one in each corner - or 2 at front or rear if you need to angle them slightly.
    (They are the washers used inside taps to seal them when you turn the tap off)
    They will probably cost you about $1 for 10 from a small hardware store.

    Nice one getting a quote for a matching centre.
    I hope they are nice about the price :)
     
  17. Rebel975

    Rebel975 Guest

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    Most likely I'll just take the design and build the crossover myself. It should be way cheaper that way; they like to use extremely expensive components.
     
  18. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Hehe.

    Good crossover components are a good idea btw, you get less leakage (losses) and noise (interference).
    They are also more likely to give matching results between different speakers.
    Also very important, observe the location and orientation (which way they point in 3D space) of inductors, otherwise they will pass Magnetic energy between themselves, causing other losses and interference.

    I'm going to rebuild my crossovers within the next year hopefully.
    They will be an experiment to see how much extra detail first order crossovers can reveal.
    But they can be a royal sod to do if you dont have drivers that are suitable, mine will probably be trouble.
     
  19. aless83

    aless83 Guest

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    I'll post mine:

    set 1, living room

    McIntosh C220 Pre-amp, MC452 Power-amp, MCD500 Cd player hooked up to a pair of JBL K2 9800 speakers.

    set 2, studio

    North Star Design Model 192 Cd player, Cyrus One amp hooked up to a pair of BBC broadcast LS3/5A speakers :nerd:

    Will post pics if someone's interested

    ciaoo
     
  20. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Yeah post some pics.
    I remember the Cyrus 1 over 20 years ago, it had a separate PSU as well.
    It was a bit dry for my taste then, but I was a bass monster about that time, anyone remember the NAD pre-amp? Not so good on quality, madness for bass :D
    When not using the pre-amp, I used a QED passive volume control (that still comes in handy), feeding 2 Rotel RB850 power amps in bridged mode.
    My dad still has his some Rogers speakers (similar to the LS3/5A), he wont replace them.
     
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