Discussion in 'Soundcards, Speakers HiFI & File formats' started by vbetts, Sep 24, 2018.
Grados are a very transparent headphone. I sold my RS1 vintage and I miss it at times
This is rather interesting... There are apaprently rather large differences between HD 650s. That's so large that can easily make it "veiled" or anything but. Not sure how old that blue HD 650 was but it might be that the newer batches are just brighter. That would certainly explain why some thing that HD 650 is veiled and others don't.
...and pads cam make rather large difference too....
@Anarion , interesting chart of the various HD650 you've got there. Wish I could give myself a reason to snag one, but since I have both the HD600 and HD6XX, I don't have an excuse to get the HD650.
I agree with gridiron, Grado do make very transparent cans, but one which I had and didn't like was the PS1000, it sounded dark, definitely a lack of the Grado sparkle. I'd gotten it because it looked hella awesome, just couldn't get myself to like the sound. With the GS1000i, it was instant love, that's why I'd gotten the PS1000, I'd figured it would have that Grado transparency.....was pretty disappointed actually.
My DT-1990 pwn that test.
Ahh... Well, works for bass but that treble test though... The wonders of lossy audio compression. In other words, everything just disappears abruptly at 15 kHz (low pass filter kicks in).
Part of me makes me want to just put my HD 6XX capsules in my HD 660 S (also swap the grilles) since it looks nicer (and is clean with fresh pads). HD 58X look better too than the Massdrop/Drop HD 6XX. Not really diggin' the blue colour but then again when you wear them it makes zero difference.
Youtube cuts everything above 15Khz. Not a best platform for audio.
On top of that it seems to add some kind of normalisation to audio. To be honest it totally ruins everything.
Hmmm... I wonder if I got somewhat extraordinary dark HD 660 S. The mids are definitely more recessed than on my HD 58X.
Soo... How should I call these? HD 580 Jubilee?
By the way, I have REALLY hard time picking any differences between these and my HD 6XX (EDIT: At first try yeah, but after a while differences are more obvious). Also very hard to say which I prefer. Both sound fantastic - I love both. Though, might actually slightly prefer these; I really like the sound - it just sounds right. Maybe a tad tighter, faster, sharper and less bass warmth (extension more or less the same). We are talking about really small differences though. Even when swapping on the fly the differences are small.
EDIT: It's clear, neutral but not boring. Also has nice sharpness and accuracy but doesn't sound artificial. Upper mids are slightly over the top, HD 6XX is more neutral there which is nicer. Ideal headphone would be HD 650 with HD 600 speed. There's nothing veiled about these two.
Basically: Buy HD 600 (or HD 650) and be happy for the rest of your life. The new version looks rather nice too (always hated how the original looked). I'd personally change headband padding to HD 650/660 S one though.
I think the new 600's come with much crappier packaging, not that it matters headphone wise. I actually like the old look. No headphones look quite like them with the kitchen counter finish.
Personally I prefer how the HD 580 Jubilee looked. HD 600 used to look just so... ehh.. Well, I prefer solid colours that do not peel off. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/senn-hd580-jubilee.877416/
HD 58X Jubilee is indeed quite similar in terms of looks, sure solid colours but the shades are pretty much there. Grille is probably the same paint job wise.
The 580 Jubilees do look nice.
Did some spring cleaning for my HD 6XX. Ended up swapping HD 6XX and HD 660 S driver capsules and pads. Didn't change the grille, since there's small difference in the finish (HD 660 S has slightly smoother plastic finish, HD 660 S more rougher matte). HD 6XX shell (and capsules) needed some cleaning and they look like new again. These are really easy to clean and you don't need any tools.
Now that I've been using all these three for a while I think that HD 650 is the king after all. It has just got utterly fantastic sound and nothing sound bad nor annoying. It tames the HD 600's 4K peak which makes it more pleasant and natural. Just faster and tighter bass and it would be really close to perfection. I don't get the HD 660 S in comparison to those two... It's not an improvement.
Kinda hard to justify HD660, when there DT1990 and Hifiman Sundara. HD660s is just kinda safer choice.
Those two are totally different tuning wise while the other HD 600 series aren't exactly. Though, I don't think the tuning choices they made for HD 660 S make much sense. At least I don't get it.
DT1990 and Hifiman Sundara have recessed upper mids and strong treble peak around 9K while HD 660 S is flat in comparison (more upper mids). Other HD 600 series cans have even more upper mids and have very smooth frequency response without large dips or peaks.
Safer choice means HD660s has the least amount of treble, so it won't sound sibilant.
DT1990 will sound sibilant on poorly mastered tracks, Sundara also might be affected by it.
So HD660s will sound as good as it gets from the box. While DT1990 require some EQ to make it less aggressive in treble. Sundara sounds good without EQ, however might be sibilant to sensitive ears.
Your analysis of the DT-1990 should include which pads you are comparing. Based on your description, it would suggest the B-pads.
Whit a 10-15dB spike around 8K you'd actually need really poorly mastered track (as in track void of any upper treble content) to make it sound neutral. 5K to 8K difference is about 20-25dB. There's no way that could sound right no matter what track without EQ.
As far as I know the balanced pads just add a lot of bass and midbass while upper mids and treble doesn't change much. Might help with overall impression but it actually means that upper mids are even more recessed in comparison to other areas. Both have massive dip around 5K and strong spike after that. That will likely make sibilance more obvious (somewhat like HD 660 S) while the 6K isn't really over the top. However, it keeps going up and up till it reaches 8K. It's probably more like overly sharp and piercing rather than sibilant.
What's weird with HD 660 S is that on paper, the differences should be rather minimal to HD 650. Yet the timbre is a lot different and doesn't sound quite right. By the way, quite funny that Sennheiser sells HD 660 S and HD 650 both for $499.95 in their US web store (as far as I know HD 660 S is the only one that comes with fancy box these days - also balanced cable). In their EU store HD 650 is 40 € cheaper (459 € vs. 499 €). In actual shops HD 650 is 329,90 € and HD 660 S is 429 € though.
Though, AKG is nuts asking $499 for K712 Pro in their US web shop. That costs 199 € here in typical shop (including 24% VAT). It's pretty meh headphone in my opinion anyway, so at $499 the buyers remorse would be super high (it high when I bought mine at 234,90 €, at least now it's cheaper...).
Ehh... Started testing HD 58X Jubilee again since I wanted to properly test it against HD 660 S. I'd actually now rate the HD 600 series like this: HD 650 ->~ HD 58X -> HD 600 -> HD 660 S.
At the moment I don't understand at all how my HD 660 S sounds. Upper mids and treble should be more or less the same as HD 58X. It sure doesn't sound like it though. HD 58X sounds sharper and clearer with bass extension that HD 660 S can only dream of... It goes much deeper.
Technically it's has the most warmth out of them all but basically it just means that it has much more bass (and sub bass) than HD 600 and HD 660 S. More than HD 650 too. I don't mind - adds depth and body/oomph (sub bass helps there), doesn't sound thin. It's not soft, it's very energetic.
At this point I can't even say for certain that HD 660 S is technically superior to HD 58X. HD 58X is much more in line with the HD 650. Upper mids are toned down a bit but not really in the bad way (it might be a tad bit more neutral there; HD 600 has some issues there compared to HD 650 and HD 58X).
Mehh... Maybe I got dud HD 660 S (which I think is rather unlikely). In an case, it doesn't seem to sound like it should in comparison to those three. There are frequency ranges that have something really weird going on. There shouldn't but... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Check the drivers in the 660s are properly located.
When my HD650 arrived something wasnt quite right.
It took a few days to realise one of the drivers had come unclipped and was operating at an angle, it took a few minutes to fix.