High DX11 CPU overhead, very low performance.

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by PrMinisterGR, May 4, 2015.

  1. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    Whatever it is. Why did it take so long to happen?
    "Lets finally optimize DX11 when DX12 is released"?
     
  2. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    AMD seems like the type of company that does things much more "by the book" than NVIDIA. There was a breakthrough with the 1018 driver. It got a +45% performance (I got from 600k to 900k), and then from 1018 I have ended up with an extra +30% on top, reaching almost 1200k. That's an almost 100% increase in driver efficiency in six months. My guess is that their driver is modular, since it has to accommodate a lot of hardware, and that they change it slowly so that the universe won't break.
     
  3. |ALE|

    |ALE| Master Guru

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    amd, it's too late to optimize dx11 path... i hope that win10 with wddm 2.0 gives a boost on dx11 and that dx12 will be implemented in games faster, pushed (may be) from xbox one that needs a performance boost...

    mantle is dead, please push developers to adopt dx12, you have the hardware of all console (and may be upcoming console like nintendo nx), games MUST runs well or better on amd hardware!
     
  4. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    No, it is not too late. You may not care about smaller games or backwards compatibility but I do.
     

  5. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    also, most non-AAA devs that dont use a pre-made engine that already has DX12 will stay with DX11 due to higher level programming...

    There are still DX9 games being released for christsake...
     
  6. Spartan

    Spartan Master Guru

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    So, gamedevs cried for a low level api, because consoles are using them, but they won't throw dx9/dx11 for dx12? This makes no sense to me.
     
  7. sammarbella

    sammarbella Ancient Guru

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    I think the "non-AAA" part means that game devs who don't develop multi-platform games with HUGE budget will stay on DX11 for a lonnnnnnng time before switch to DX12 as main DX.

    Is this making sense now?

    :)
     
  8. IceVip

    IceVip Master Guru

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    Ofc it wont make any sense to you, sell that 290 and buy a hd 4870, then it may hit you.
     
  9. Spartan

    Spartan Master Guru

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    No thank you! My cpu already s*cks balls, I don't want any more performance hit...
     
  10. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    The game devs that are crying, ARE the AAA devs...
     

  11. Spartan

    Spartan Master Guru

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    It's fine for me, if just all of the AAA developers will start to code in dx12. For indie games my cpu is "ok".
     
  12. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    non AAA doesnt mean indie.

    There are plenty of devs with publishers that dont have AAA budgets.
     
  13. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Well said. DX11/High level has a very well established place and it is not going anywhere. That's why Microsoft released DX11.3 along with DX12 (this is the first time this happens btw).

    The guy who makes StarDrive 2 is not the same as EA/DICE. The developers that really needed a "clean" low level API were people who were investing a ton of money in advanced engines, and who couldn't get enough performance out of them because DX11 drivers from all manufacturers are a mess. That's not neither AMD's nor NVIDIA's fault, by the way. The drivers are full of hacks and workarounds for various games and engines whose developers are incompetent. All that cruft made the work of competent people a ton harder.

    An ex-NVIDIA intern made a very interesting post at gamedev.net. He was in their DX team during the DX10/Vista transition. Let me give you some choice quotes on the kind of situation we have without low level APIs, and this is even before DX11.

    The low level APIs were pushed by companies like AMD and Intel (and in a smaller degree, NVIDIA), because driver maintenance has become almost impossible with all the paths and workarounds. In exchange for higher level-ease, that most developers were used to, they will now get a "clean" access to the hardware. If the guy's comments about the competence of most developers are true, then DX12 titles should be far and few, except from most AAA titles based of off well known engines with big support teams.

    In the end:
    I know I'm the wall of text guy, shut up already about it
     
  14. sammarbella

    sammarbella Ancient Guru

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    You know that your "quoting" addiction has a solution...right?

    :D
     
  15. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Lobotomy?
     

  16. sammarbella

    sammarbella Ancient Guru

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    Nahhh!

    You need to open a thread about DX12 API overhead results from your own benchmarks.

    :D
     
  17. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    DX12 looks fine for now. We'll open a champagne thread once the DX11 driver reaches 2 million draw calls. :D

    Seriously though, they have improved it 100% in six months :3eyes:
     
  18. sammarbella

    sammarbella Ancient Guru

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    Maybe 50%....and we all know they will not fight for the other 50%(at least) they are still behind Nvidia drivers.
     
  19. Spartan

    Spartan Master Guru

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    In this case, amd should start to shut down their cpu manufacturing lines, to prevent people buying their pos cpus, because there is NO WAY, their fx 6xxx/8xxx/9xxx series cpus will stand a chance in 2016 without multithreading in games. Ofc, there will be some who MAY buy amd cpus for 24/7 video rendering (I tried it, and it's just meh...), and if Zen won't save the day (it won't), then...
     
  20. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    I have started with 630k in January with 14.12 in Windows 8.1, and now I am at 1.180k with 1055.0 in Windows 10 in July. That's not a 100% increase, but it is a 90% increase and still impressive.

    The post itself is better than my quotes. All the new engines (except Frostbite) have some kind of a gratis scheme, studios will adopt them, just don't expect miracles. The quote above about multithreading was about DX9-11, not 12. In DX12/Mantle AMD CPUs are doing very fine actually. Games seem to appreciate the extra cores that they have, and for their price they are usually worth it.

    Their APUs are very much ahead of anything close to them, and they have enabled them to grab the contracts for all consoles, including the future Nintendo system. If anything, they should develop more CPUs (and they are doing that, under the leadership of the guy who designed the Athlon and the Apple CPUs, so at least we can be very hopeful).
     

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