HHO Systems: Any Personal Reviews?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by JPennStar, May 11, 2008.

  1. JPennStar

    JPennStar Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    AMD 7970M
    I'm curious if anyone has personal knowledge about HHO systems for cars? I just found out about it online (sure its been around for awhile) and am curious if it really helps vehicle mpg.

    If you're not aware of what it is, as I wasn't and could hardly find out WTF HHO meant, the HHO (hydrogen hydrogen oxygen) system is fundamentally a water electrolysis system under the hood of the car which puts eletricity through distilled water (breaking up the H20 into H, H, and O gas) and pumps hydrogen and oxygen into the vehicle intake and in doing so gives you better mpg and possibly a tad more power.

    This sounds good and fine and I've even seen some youtube videos about it but I'm not quite sure if it would be worth it for me to build one on my own. Part of my inquiry entails whether or not it is true, and (secondly) if so what procedures and materials would I need to do so?

    Thanks fellas. :)
     
  2. Mad Cow

    Mad Cow Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Sapphire+HIS X1950 PRO Crossfire+OC
    Let's just say it goes against the laws of thermodynamics. You can't create energy. The energy needed to convert water into H and O2 is much more than what can be gained from adding these gases into your air/fuel mixture.

    EDIT: Thinking about it more, you would drain your battery faster, so you would likely need a better alternator. But anyway, the amount of gases created through electrolysis is so insignificant that you would need to run this system for a while before it could actually do anything.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2008
  3. JPennStar

    JPennStar Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    AMD 7970M
    I would agree if there was no such thing as an alternator. The alternator spun by the engine/gasoline replenishes the battery during running operations allowing the HHO system to work.

    I do realize more energy must be put into the system, as in all situations, but the case does exist with the alternator which is spun continually durning engine operation and only needs to charge the battery for a short period; after that it produces unused energy... This is why I'm curious.
     
  4. Ghz

    Ghz Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    evga 6800ultra 256mb
    I can already forsee a huge amount of missinformation and missunderstanding in this thread.

    yes it works (if done properly)

    and no it does not go against the laws of thermodynamics as this is a chemicle reaction. not simply a energy transfer.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2008

  5. JPennStar

    JPennStar Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    AMD 7970M
    Ghz do you have any more info than that? Any sites that talk about how it is specifically done, because I have a good general idea.
     
  6. dukedave5200

    dukedave5200 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,192
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    BFG GTX 285 OCX - SLI
    I have read about HHO systems. Not sure if I buy into it right now. But one thing to keep in mind, that even though the alternator is constantly spinning, it still puts more load on the engine when it needs to charge the battery and/or run accesories.

    For example if you turn on your lights (depending on your car/situation) you can tell the engine idle changes slightly/briefly because there is more load on the alternator. This can be noticed better if you have a lot of accesories all turning on at the same time (flood/off road lights on a truck for example).
     
  7. Mad Cow

    Mad Cow Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Sapphire+HIS X1950 PRO Crossfire+OC
    Yea I corrected myself, that was 1am logic talking. :p

    I just don't think that enough gases would be created unless you ran it for a while. Maybe if you used it as a substitute for nitrous, where you only use it in short bursts for more power.
     
  8. Ghz

    Ghz Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    evga 6800ultra 256mb
    @jpenn, sorry I can't realy give you any good sites as most of what I've found is like 90%BS and 10% fact but I can give you some tips and pointers though.

    as mad cow stated no not enough gas would be created with those crappy cilender things their always advertising. you would need a bigger tank.

    now one missconception about the electralisis process is that you need to put a large current through the water in order to get anything. this is incorrect you would burn up your electrodes in no time. what you need to do is take a small current (.5-1.0v would work great) and "pulse" it. this will cause the electrodes to act as a compasitor and is far more effective.

    another thing don't use steel or anything that corrodes easily as your electrodes. personaly I would go with solid nickle.

    also spark pluggs aren't too effective at igniting the gas an Rf emitter would work a whole lot better.

    not shure what frequency you would need to run it at but maybe this will help.
    http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/vibrat.html

    EDIT: I plan on doing this with a generator we have in the near future to see how well it works. I'll post all the results of how it goes when I get it done.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2008
  9. JPennStar

    JPennStar Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    AMD 7970M
    Duke and Mad I see your two good points which make sense. The alternator would have more load on it and thus take away some HP and secondly (which I've wondered about) the HHO output is constant and thus more at idle and less at higher RPM; thus the HHO mostly benefits lower RPM.

    Mostly I've been wondering about it just as an idea. I think much of this depends on the "numbers". How much load to HHO output, how much water and voltage do I need, etc? I don't think these can be really answered w/o actually doing some bench tests.

    Thirdly which really irks me about the entire thing; if this was such a great idea why hasn't it become more popular and more used in the auto industry. I'm sure if this made sense Ford and GMC would pick it right away to make their large trucks more fuel efficient and thus more marketable to people concened about gas prices. Furthermore, why are all the websites I go to very sketchy and lacking in information?
     
  10. Ghz

    Ghz Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    evga 6800ultra 256mb
    the fact is the oil companies have a monopaly. did you know there's more oil in alaska than in sadi arabia. also they recently found a 600 square mile oil field in the golf of mexico. that's enough oil to supply all of north amarica for the next 10,000+ years. think about that.
     

  11. Hyvry1

    Hyvry1 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,453
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    980m 8GB
    This will not benefit you. Taking power from the engine to drive the extra load on the alternator, when including the efficiency of the alternator and the HHO system you will put in more energy than you will gain. The oxygen will bond with the fuel or re-bond with the hydrogen within the engine upon combustion, but you have already used more energy to break the oxygen and hydrogen bonds. You will loose power and MPG doing this. Also putting hydrogen and oxygen gas into the engine is not ideal, you risk running the engine hot. This means replacing the spark plugs more often and you risk blowing your head gasket.

    When your battery is charged and you are not draining any extra electrical power your alternator is not producing "spare" power; energy can not be created or destroyed, only transferred. The alternator will have less resistance with less load.
     
  12. Mad Cow

    Mad Cow Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Sapphire+HIS X1950 PRO Crossfire+OC
    Not to mention the incredibly vast amounts in Russia. Yea the oil business is seriously screwed up. But that's not the point of this topic.

    Thanks Hyvry1, that's essentially what I wanted to say, but I wasn't sure if it was right, I'm not too knowledgeable with electric motors and generators.
     
  13. Ghz

    Ghz Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    evga 6800ultra 256mb
    well there's only one way to find out right.
     
  14. The_AC

    The_AC Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    R9 390X
    awfulawfulawfulawfulawfulawfulawfulawfulbad

    The point in nitrous oxide is that it only breaks down into oxygen inside the cylinders themselves. Having a tank full of hydrogen and oxygen would be a pretty bad idea.
     
  15. Mad Cow

    Mad Cow Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Sapphire+HIS X1950 PRO Crossfire+OC
    I know that, I'm just saying that that would be the only practical use of hydrogen for a gas engine. But hey, think on the bright side, imagine if those idiot street racers caught wind of this and started driving around with tanks full of hydrogen. They crash and the problem solves itself. :p
     

  16. JPennStar

    JPennStar Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    AMD 7970M
    Thanks guys.

    I know there's a ton of oil in Alaska and in Utah or Colorado (can't remember) in form of shell oil.

    What makes me surprised is why the US vehicle companies aren't screaming for more oil wells considering that they are getting their asses handed to them by foreign car companies.

    We need several more nuclear plants and a few dozen more refineries.

    Although gas is 4$/gal around here and it sucks paying 40$ to fill up (compared to 22$ what it was last year) I'm glad it makes people aware of the fact that driving 1970 Cadillacs is a no no; because they get 8mpg and cost 100$ to fill up. lol.
     
  17. gakio12

    gakio12 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've used a system hooked up pretty bad to my engine, and I found that the knock has gone away and the engine runs smoother. I haven't gotten a gas milage reading yet because the home made generator I build freaked out and needs to be rebuilt.
     

Share This Page