Here we go again!

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by Estima8tor, Aug 23, 2008.

  1. Estima8tor

    Estima8tor Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 960 FTW
    Once again I've bought a new GPU only to find that the idiot engineer's over at ATI & nvidia cannot or will not design a proper cooling system so I'm forced to spend another $40 on aftermarket cooling! My last 4 GPU's - 1900xt, 7950gt, 8800gt, and now the 4850 have all come with inadequate cooling and each time I've had to deal with the same problem. Yet some how the people over at Zalman or Thermaltake seem to have no problem coming up with a decent cooling solution.

    I would rather pay a little extra for a GPU with proper cooling that I can pull out of the box, install and use. I don't want to, and shouldn't have to dick around with bios flashing, software hacks or have to listen to some loud ass whining fan constantly cycling up and down while I'm trying to game. This fan needs to run at like 80% just to keep max temps with in reasonable levels and you can hear the damn thing from across the room.

    And what's up with ATI, they sell me a card that idles at 80c and their OK with that, well I'm not, seriously, wtf? And they have been screwing around with this CCC program for years and it's still a piece of crap not to mention their drivers cause more grief than a bitchy women. To be fair Nvidia isn't a whole lot better either.

    I've spent to much time flashing bios (bios by bret caused hard lock ups) and editing xml files and messing around with asus smart doctor fan controls when I should have been gaming.

    they spend millions of dollars on R&D to come up with awesome hardware like the 4800 series only to ruin the end user experience with ****ty cooling solutions and "beta like" official drivers.

    So my options are - let it run hot, deal with the fan noise or spend more money - and that just sucks!! :mad: :mad4:
     
  2. Agizor

    Agizor Master Guru

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    GPU:
    Sapphire 4870 512MB
    Wait, so is your 4850 giving you problems because it is running hot?

    If not, so what? Seems to be designed to run at these temps.
     
  3. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    MSI 2070S X-Trio
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2008
  4. Darkuser

    Darkuser Member

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    GPU:
    HD4870
    You bought the cheapo version of the card with the cheapo cooling system. I don't see any reason to bitch. On top of that they are designed to be able to withstand 100c. 80c under load is actually pretty cool.

    My 4870 doesn't hit above 65c with the fan at 30% at all times.
     

  5. Estima8tor

    Estima8tor Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 960 FTW
    I want a product that works out of the box and stays reasonably cool without having to physically modify, that's all. They don't have to re-invent the wheel here. Quite and effective cooling is already exist and is on the market, why can't ati & nvidia utilize the same methods?
     
  6. Estima8tor

    Estima8tor Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 960 FTW
    Your 4870 has a completely different cooler on it dude.

    All reference coolers on the 4850 are the same so I don't know what your talking about "cheap". I've been building gaming systems for over 10 years and I know the damage heat causes and when there's to much of it regardless of the manufacture's stated tolerences.

    I'm perfectly fine with upper 70's to low 80's max but not 80c idle and 94c load on stock fan speed. come on...

    80c load is with the fan set at 80%! Have you heard what a 4850 fan sound like running at 80%. :3eyes:

    All I'm saying is that I've had heat issues with the past 4 cards and I'm getting tired of it. Piss poor cooling designs time after time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2008
  7. Darkuser

    Darkuser Member

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    GPU:
    HD4870
    The 4850 is the cheap version of a 4800 with a crappy cooler. It's the reason I didn't buy that card. My 8800GT has the same cooler style and sounded like a bloody race car. If your willing to spend extra on an aftermarket cooler then why not spend the extra for the card with a good cooler with better performance as well was my point.

    99% of people want the card to be completely silent which means your forced to change the speed yourself if you don't like the temps you have even on with the good cooler.
     
  8. Estima8tor

    Estima8tor Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 960 FTW
    Uhh, yeah? Thanks for the info.
     
  9. Darkuser

    Darkuser Member

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    GPU:
    HD4870
    So what were you expecting for $200 mid range card? The cheap cooler is part of the reason the card is so cheap, end of story. If you were going for high performance you would've bought the card with a high performance cooler for another $130.
     
  10. bretware

    bretware Master Guru

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    GPU:
    Two ATI 6850's
    There i s nothing wrong with the 4850 cooler, In fact it's rather good.
    The problems comes from bad air flow thru cases, and not taking into accout that you must find away to dump the exhaust air. It's not a cheap design, All card makers have to make a single slot card because not everyone has the room for a dual slot card.
    There's more to building a system than plugging in wires!!
    I have two 4850's crossfired, about 52C@38% and the load temps are just as nice.

    EDIT
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    Sorry, I just feel like common sense isn't being used with these cards, look at all the people bitching about the drivers. Look if you are in the group that buys a card when it first comes out, you are the testers. You think there is a room somewhere with 1000's of computers with different configurations to check for compatibilty. If I here one more crybaby say hes going to take his ATI card back and get an Nividia, I going to :biggun: .
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2008

  11. Iarwain

    Iarwain Banned

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    GPU:
    4890 990//1120
    Sounds to me like the guy just has no idea what he's doing, and not only that, refuses to believe that the cards are completely safe at 80c, despite the manufacturers ratings of up to 100.

    I'm sorry man, but there is a difference between the temperatures YOU are comfortable with, and what actually exists. Just because you've seen GPUs in the past that would crash at 70 doesn't mean these do. I realize it can be tough to get over when you've set up that barrier in your mind, but you just need to accept the fact that these chips are going to run hot, no matter what you do.

    Aftermarket coolers are usually bulky and heavy. Normal people using cards with those coolers on them would cause a lot of damage. Nevermind that most aftermarket coolers are dual slot solutions, which a lot of people just can't fit in their case.
     
  12. Estima8tor

    Estima8tor Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 960 FTW
    That's laughable. How much of your personal time have you spent trying help people to fix ATI's problems?

    People like you who go out of their way to help solve problems are much appreciated but you shouldn't have to being doing it in the first place. ATI can't come to the conclusion on it's own that people are obviously going to be concerned with a card that idles at 80c by default. That's ludicrous. :3eyes: - ATI was just in a hurry to release the 4000 series so they could stick their middle finger in nvidia's face and we are left dealing with unresolved issues as a result.

    Call me a cry baby if you want but I call you a fool for putting up with this garbage. I fully understand the complexity of trying to make new hardware run on all of the various system combinations out there. Don't tell me just because I buy a relative new product that I'm suddenly become a beta tester, that rubbish. Just for the record I have two 120mm, one 90mm and one antec spot cool fan running in my case which provide excellent air flow.

    A friend at work just picked up a 9800GTX+ and guess what, it's works perfectly right out of the box. No bios flash or xml edits needed and no obnoxiously loud fans to deal with either. The thermals are in line and drivers are stable with all of his games - for basically the same price and performance as the 4850. That was all I was expecting.

    You guys say I'm asking to much but I say your expecting to little, and as long as you continue to do so, your going to get more of the same.
     
  13. bretware

    bretware Master Guru

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    GPU:
    Two ATI 6850's
    Hey everybody I'm a fool, how about that!!!
     
  14. Chodi

    Chodi Active Member

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    GPU:
    Gigabyte GTX670oc
    The 4870X2 is a high end piece designed for maximum performance. Most of the reviews point out that top end cards have always sucked watts and blow heat. If you want state of the art there is a price to pay in heat and even noise. They bring this in at a price for the market. Aftermarket coolers can be a great addition but to incorporate that cost in a mass market build is not practical. That is why the aftermarket companies exist. At this level you are into hobbiest products for people who like to do their own mods. The stock cooler gets the job done.
     
  15. !H'Guru

    !H'Guru Master Guru

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    GPU:
    HD4870 @ 925/4900 Rivamod
    Well, remember the Radeon X1950 XTX? That was my previous card. It ran hot (90 Idle) all the time with a reasonable fan noise. Only hearable with the ati tool stress test. It still runs stable this day in the other PC. No problems at all. So 80+ temps are just fine. It won't kill the card unless you remove the cooler off course :). CHodi is right. Aftermarket coolers are for enthausiasts. The stock cooler is good enough.
    The radeon 4850 is a great card for its money. You should keep it.
     

  16. F1refly

    F1refly Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    970GTX-oc edition
    i think he's just saying why cant they implement the best cooler design on all the cards.

    i guess they go for stabilty and call it fine, but i agree the chips could run cooler with the better solutions available. you have a high tech card and 1990's cooling fan design.

    now if your overclocking, then i say thats why there is aftermarket coolers and its not up to manufacturers to prepare a card for oc'ing without charging more for it.
     
  17. !H'Guru

    !H'Guru Master Guru

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    GPU:
    HD4870 @ 925/4900 Rivamod
    But if it doesn't matter, why spend extra money on a bigger cooler?!(what the GPU companies say) All of these companies aim for profit. That's why they go for the cheapest solution (which is stable off course) so that they can maximize the profit.
     
  18. C DuDe

    C DuDe Active Member

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    GPU:
    Sapphire HD 4870x2
    My 2 cents,

    In a way Estim8tor has a valid point...

    Lets see this from another perspective, how a bout a car....

    You go to a car-dealer and see the most beautifully car you've ever seen.
    I mean its breathtaking and has the lot: twin turbo V8, 400 HP, convertible, cruise control etc.
    You buy the car for say $125.000 and once at home you decide to show off to the Misses and take her for a ride.
    You get on the highway and step on it then you find the convertible isn't exactly working as it should, your missing one of the twins, the airco isn't what it suppose to be either and your tires are already worn after 100 miles.... what do you do?!?

    Yup, you go Bitching back to the dealer and tear the guy's head off only to find out the vendor isn't the actual cause but the manufacturer is....

    They made a product which is flawed and should be dealt with a.s.a.p.

    Can you and should you expect to be able to buy a 100% working product from any manufacturer (It doesn't matter how cheap or expensive it is) or not?
    I my oppinion... YES, you do!


    Back to the point...

    This card runs hot... true... it should be no problem.. true... although you might have a crash due to it... true (had one, looked at temp and found it to be 93c when playing Crysis for 4 hours)... weird that it crashed... so true.

    I had my fair share of heat problems and found that airflow was the culprit.
    After some remodeling I no longer have wires running behind or next to my card or any ware for that matter but the question remains.... shouldn't the card come with a good fan that runs at a decent speed and cools the card enough so I don't have to worry about heat and not to have to rearrange all the wireing... In my opinion true again!!

    Obviously, when you're going to OC your rigg you're going to have to make adjustments which in terms means getting better fan's and such.


    After the re... euhm... decorating.. and having to set my fan in XML to 40% my card runs at 41c Idle and a staggering 75c after 3 hours of gaming.
    (Didn't have this much difference in temp with my 4870 CF (which I had before), those 2 run at 62c Idle and 81c in game after 3 hours at same fan speed).
    Again.. Redoing the wiring OK, that was craply (< is this English?) done but why the hell do I have to add the XML for fan speed to get a decent temp?!?

    I would gladly pay some more for a card like this with a good quiet cool fan on my HD4870x2.
     
  19. bretware

    bretware Master Guru

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    GPU:
    Two ATI 6850's
    LOL, new software and hardware often has small issues at release.
    Were Guru's, we adapt and overcome, I understand thats beyond the scope of some people, thats why they make consoles.
     

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