Health insurance just got canceled.

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by PhazeDelta1, Sep 23, 2013.

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  1. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

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    And this is a time where Obama should say "F you" to everyone and use his executive powers to bypass congress as much as possible. He's not exactly looking to run another term, and his approval rating can't get much lower.

    But of course, people like Brasky will throw a fit over something that will make their lives better because of poor knowledge or even hostility towards a collective. If every congressman knew that his next term depended on passing a Universal Healthcare in the U.S. while reducing the % of GDP it draws upon, the godamn thing would have happened yesterday.
     
  2. Brasky

    Brasky Ancient Guru

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    yep, he's making everyone's life better, he's the greatest smartest leader we have ever had. I'm going to personally start the push to have him immortalized on Mt Rushmore tomorrow. I was Wrong.
     
  3. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Ancient Guru

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    Poor knowledge or just plain ignorance. An unfortunate epidemic in modern America, and indeed the world these days.
     
  4. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

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    Why the hell are you so hostile to an initiative that would secure you better quality healthcare while being cheaper? And with no small lettering that will see you lose it on certain medical conditions to boot.
     

  5. Brasky

    Brasky Ancient Guru

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    the preexisting conditions clause is the only useful thing in the bill
    and i'm opposed to it because of the original post in this thread.

    7500 extra per year per family
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/23/its-official-obamacare-will-increase-health-spending-by-7450-for-a-typical-family-of-four/

    people that followed the rules are now getting screwed because of the people that cheat the system. it's the exact opposite of how it should be.

    and our leaders/companies are not required to use the system they are forcing the masses in.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/358550/congresss-exemption-obamacare-john-fund

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/carrielukas/2013/09/18/as-congress-and-its-staffers-try-to-weasel-out-of-obamacare-americans-smell-a-rat/
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  6. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

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    Obamacare has nothing to do with the kind of Universal Healthcare that we are talking about. It is nothing more than a poor patching up of an already broken system. Even according to best estimates it will still leave 15% of the population with no coverage, not to mention the widely varied coverage (and costs to) of the remaining population.

    The entire system needs to be thrown out and approached from a fresh perspective, from the top to bottom. I'm not saying directly copy the Israel, British or any other system; but those are great places to start forming a basis. Obviously the U.S. is unique and will have to find its own way, but the sooner it starts the less painful the transition will be.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  7. Brasky

    Brasky Ancient Guru

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    In that case, Look how much our government is screwing up a healthcare overhaul, just imagine how horrible they would be at a single payer/universal system.
     
  8. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

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    And that's what I was getting at by saying that if Congress knew that their ass was on the line, they would get a functioning universal healthcare system out yesterday. However, instead I see people yelling out "socialist", "government control" and "why should I pay for him". All without realizing that they are advocating for ****tier lives - except for the tiny percentage that pays top dollar.

    And it pains me to no end to hear how difficult it is for the family I have in the U.S. to get basic medical care or drugs when I take that stuff for granted. Also, my being a full fledged U.S. citizen (down to registering for the SSS) leaves me personally vested in the welfare of the system.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  9. scheherazade

    scheherazade Ancient Guru

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    Hospitals are expensive because you have no other choice.

    Don't want to pay? Fine. Die.

    They may be obligated to provide you 'stabilizing care' (i.e. resuscitate you... over and over.), but they don't have to give you surgery to fix your problem.

    If you want that surgery, it's pay or die.

    So the question becomes, if not getting the surgery means death, and losing everything... then why not pay everything you have and be dead broke --- but alive? It's not like you can take the money with you when you die...

    There's no incentive to charge less, when people will pay you everything they have to stay alive.

    There's no "competition" when every institution you go to knows you're F'd, and they have you by the balls. Each one of them can pick a number out of the sky.



    IMO, the real competition is going overseas for treatment.

    Stop pandering to U.S. companies and their extortive prices.
    Go to Europe, go to Mexico, go wherever.
    Just stop accepting this "infinite pot of money" mentality that U.S. healthcare companies operate under.

    -scheherazade
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  10. scheherazade

    scheherazade Ancient Guru

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    2 insurances ago, when my insurance changed, my new insurance tried to drop coverage for 'all lower abdominal ailments'... because I had been to the doctor about having gut pains.

    If I had been unfortunate enough to lose insurance and be a new application (versus changing providers in a continuous-insurance situation), they would have legally been able to drop that coverage.

    What use is insurance if they don't cover problems, but cover things that aren't problems?
    Insurance is a risk amortization service, not free money.



    I can tell you that when in my family there was a $100k 6 hour outpatient procedure, $10k went to the doctor and his staff (in-hospital office, all labor), $2k went to the hospital (room, bed, consumables, etc) and almost $90k went to the company that owns the hospital (for no particular services rendered... for the privilege of being in their ethereal presence.)




    A chunk of the cost rise of Obamacare comes from the insuring of the previously uninsurable. Those that were unhealthy and were dropped, and no company would take them for less than a fortune.

    A chunk also comes from the " 'no insurance' is no longer an option " factor, which means that the companies can hike rates, since even if you quit you still have to pay something for the uninsured penalty.




    IMO, the Dems and Reps should stop trying to push their personal preference on everyone.

    They should quit being LEADERS, and start being REPRESENTATIVES ... like the constitution establishes them to be.

    For the constituents that want single payer. Fine. Make an opt-in single payer.
    If you sign up, you pay takes for it, and you have single payer coverage.
    Let it operate non-profit, where everyone pays the average cost of all members, to divide up the burden.

    For the constituents that want private coverage. Fine. Don't pay taxes for any health care. Go pay a private company.

    Represent the constituents, do what they want.

    -scheherazade
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013

  11. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    A functional system would be great. Obamacare is not. The only positive is that people can't be denied insurance. However, insurance companies just inflate costs elsewhere to make up for it. I already pay over 1 k a year for insurance, I'm not interested in paying more.
     
  12. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    The states were given an option of creating their own, state run "health insurance exchange" where the insurance companies were forced to compete with each other....or to sign on for the federal health care plan. What did most states decide? To go the federal route.... Don't blame Obama for the failing of your representatives or your state gov't...... Obama didn't even write the bill. The democrats and a handful of republicans in congress did....so, blame the republicans that refused to work with the rest of congress....
     
  13. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    Meh, I'm obviously not one who really keeps up on politics. I don't really care about the technicalities of who did what.
     
  14. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    The important part is that both parties will lie to cover their own asses....and both like to blame the other for everything. Neither party will vote in the best interest of the country, unless a member of their party is sitting in the White House. Oh yeah, and special interest groups are more important than the people that voted them into office. Those the are important parts of US politics.... As long as you remember all that...nothing they do will surprise you.
     
  15. Arctucas

    Arctucas Ancient Guru

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    No, but hospital corporations are extreme-profit businesses with an endless line of clients at their doors.

    Doctors should be fairly compensated, but the corporations are insatiable vampires, preying on everyone; rich or poor, healthy or sick.
     

  16. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    I could not agree more with this statement. None of the proposals of either the dems or reps have addressed ths part of the problem. We all know why the elephant in the room is that lobbying is still legal (which IMO it should not be).
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  17. Arctucas

    Arctucas Ancient Guru

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    Actually, it was written by Progressive Socialists, regardless of the 'D' or 'R', with the sole intent of destroying the American system, and enslaving a once free and proud people.
     
  18. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Yep, that's why states were given a choice as to how they wanted to handle health care.... whether it be through a Gov't run program or through a state run "insurance exchange". People seem to miss that part of the "Obamacare" bill.... People also seem to miss the fact that the decision as to which program to implement, was left up to the states' governments'. "Obamacare" isn't forcing Gov't controlled health insurance down people's throats. If your state isn't implementing a "health insurance exchange" system, it's because your state gov't didn't want it. People need to pay more attention to what's actually going on in the world before they start blaming the wrong people.

    3 things the US needed for health care....only 1 of which actually passed...was stopping insurance companies from dropping people due to illness.

    The second, was results driven payment. Basically, if the doctor/hospital screws up (like in the case of my son where he ended up with a massive staph infection that almost killed him from a non-sterile operating room, or a friend of mine that now has severe nerve damage because a surgeon screwed up), he/she/it doesn't get paid.

    We also needed something included in the bill to stop all these BS "class action suits" against drug companies for known side effects. {I keep hearing (since I don't actually watch TV) commercials from a law group about some BS "class action suit" against Tylenol for every common side effect listed on the product label. If the side effects are on the label, how is it the fault of the drug company if you take the meds and suffer the side effects? You took them knowing what the most common side effects were and willingly accepted that risk.}
     
  19. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Nothing makes me more depressed and angry than the state of the healthcare system in the U.S.

    If you haven't heard of the "charge master" or master charge file that forms the basis of hospital billing systems, then the Time article "Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills are Killing Us" is an absolute must read.

    You can find it online in .pdf form at http://livingwithmcl.com/BitterPill.pdf
     
  20. Chillin

    Chillin Ancient Guru

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    Thanks for that article, I learnt a lot of shocking details from it.
     
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