HDTV 120hz did this person got rip off in Circuit City

Discussion in 'The HTPC, HDTV & Ultra High Definition section' started by NvidiaFreak, May 12, 2008.

  1. ST19AG_WGreymon

    ST19AG_WGreymon Ancient Guru

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    All HDMI cables are the same. Since the signal is digital, the cable quality does not matter, so long as it's not broken, it will work.

    Ripped from the Playstation Underground forums courtesy of Sony4Life:

    Since this question gets asked like 15 times a day, and I usually end up responding to them, I'll make a general post... Sure would be nice to be stickied, but since that won't happen, at least highlight it and keep the URL so you yourself will have an easy time "replying" to the onslaught of questions...

    I originally wrote this as a reply to a post, but thought it made more sense standing on it's own... So here goes...

    "Question: Is there any difference between a cheap (i.e. $10 HDMI cable) and an expensive (i.e. $150 HDMI cable)???"

    I have an EE degree. I work as a broadcast engineer. I live and breath digital and analog signals every day. So yes, you could say I'm qualified to give the answer to this question...

    That answer is, "No, an expensive HDMI cable will make NO difference in the quality of your picture OR sound"

    I'll give you the more complex reason first, then an analogy... Hopefully one will make sense... If you don't want all the real technical stuff, just skip down to B for a real simple explaination...

    A) Wires send electrical signals... Plain and simple. Anything sent over a wire is ultimately just a voltage/current applied to that cable. Let's say we're talking about an analog video signal that's 1 volt peak to peak... In other words, measuring from the LOWEST voltage to the HIGHEST voltage will give a result of 1 volt... With an analog signal you have "slices" of time that are "lines" of signal... It's too complex to go into here, but basically you have a "front porch" which is known as the "setup"... This is what helps your tv "lock onto" and sets the "black level" for the signal. After that you've got each line of the image (455 half cycles per line). Again I won't go into how chromanance (color information) and luminance (picture or brightness information) is combined, seperated, etc.. It's too complex for this discussion, but irregardless, just know that following that porch you've got all the lines of the picture (and some that don't show up on the picture... these carry closed captioning, test signals, etc...). All of these "lines" of information when you look at them on a scope look like this...


    That waveform is all of that information in analog form... In other words, if you look at one VERY SMALL timeslice of that waveform, the EXACT position of the form (i.e. what voltage is present) represents what information is at that position...

    Because of this, it's VERY EASY for other radiated signals to get "mixed in" with that information. When this happens, the more "noise" you get mixed into the signal, the more degraded the picture will be... You'll start to get snow, lines, weird colors, etc... Because "information" is getting into the waveform that doesn't belong there...

    With digital however, (i.e. the signal sent over an HDMI cable), the information is encoded differently... At it's lowest level, it's nothing but a string of bits... In other words, each signal is either ON or OFF... It doesn't care if a particular timeslice is 4.323 volts or 4.927 volts... It's just ON... See on the right side here, the "square wave" pattern?


    That's what a digital signal looks like... For each "slice" of the signal, the "bit" is either on (if the signal is high) or off (if it's low)...

    Because of that, even if you mix some noise, or even a LOT of noise into the signal, the bit will STILL be on or off... It doesn't matter...


    Now, for a slightly easier to understand analogy...

    B) Think of it this way... Let's say you have a ladder with 200 steps on it... An "analog" signal represent information by WHICH step the person is on at a certain time. As you move further and further away (get "noise or interference in the signal), it's very easy to start making mistakes... For example, if the person is on the 101st step, you might say he's on 102nd, or as you get further away, you might start making more and more mistakes... At some point you won't know if the person is on the 13th step or the 50th step....

    NOW... In a digital signal, we don't care if he's on the 13th or 14th or 15th step... All we care about is rather he's at the TOP or the BOTTOM... So now, as we back you up further and further (introduce more noise), you might have no idea what STEP he's on, but you'll STILL be able to tell if he's a "1" or a "0"...

    THIS is why digital signals aren't affected by cheaper cables, etc... Now eventually if you keep moving further and further back, there may come a point where you can no longer tell if he's up or down... But the good news is, digital signals don't "guess"... If they SEE the signal, they work... If they DON'T, they DON'T.. LOL

    So if anyone ever tells you they can "see the difference" between HDMI cables, etc... You can knowingly laugh to yourself and think about how much money the poor sole wasted on something that was pointless.


    Now, I've seen others say that they make a difference in audio... ALL audio carried over HDMI is STILL in digital format... So again, since it's a digital signal, it will not make ANY difference at all....

    I've also seen various posts in regards to things like "Make sure you get a v1.3 cable"... The various HDMI versions determine the capabilities of the DEVICES on either end of that cable (most of the HDMI versions (other then 1.0 to 1.1) have to do with AUDIO and how many channels / type of audio are carried...) Because of this, the cable itself is NO DIFFERENT... It's just marketing that some companies charge more for a "v1.3" cable then a "v1.1" cable, etc... The cables themselves will work now and WELL into the future for any other HDMI versions that come along the way....
     
  2. NvidiaFreak

    NvidiaFreak Ancient Guru

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    Well your wrong since i saw this with my own eyes. this is the cable i got from Newegg a few months ago http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812189054 and when i hook it up to the PS3 i did not get Dolby True HD 5.1 with that cable but with the cable Sony HDMI 1.3a cable i got Dolby True HD 5.1 with the same settings and same TV. i try this five times and i keep getting the same thing. So the real answer is a expensive HDMI cable not over $100 will make a difference then the cheap HDMI cable because its like you going to tell me a 1280x720p movie is going to look better then a 1920x1080p movie, that how HDMI 1.0 is 720p and HDMI 1.3 is 1920x1080p which is better.

    Even people who work at computer store dont even know jack when a person who know to build PC know more then a person who work at a computer store.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
  3. AnthraxPants

    AnthraxPants Banned

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    I hate bad sales people. I went into a Computer Expo shop in Perth, Australia. When I asked what parts were in a particular PC that was being sold the guy began to act frustrated. I asked to see the manager and he replied "I am the manager, get the f*** out of my store"!
    I do all my shopping online now and don't have to put up with sales people any more. WOOT!
     
  4. QuadCannons

    QuadCannons Ancient Guru

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    His first step in getting ripped off was stepping into Circuit City.
     

  5. roguesn1per

    roguesn1per Ancient Guru

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    Asking was also a part of it...Should Always,....i mean always....Research what you wanna buy before hand...
     
  6. ST19AG_WGreymon

    ST19AG_WGreymon Ancient Guru

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    You must have gotten a borked cable then. lol All HDMI cables are the same. The HDMI revisions only apply to the ports themselves.
     
  7. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Ancient Guru

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    QFT.
     
  8. ST19AG_WGreymon

    ST19AG_WGreymon Ancient Guru

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    Thanks!
     
  9. Smellybumlove

    Smellybumlove Master Guru

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    :stewpid:
    +1
     
  10. cableguy619

    cableguy619 Member

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    I had Best BUy try to pull that on me the other day when I bougt my new Samsun 6 Series 46". I laughed and said "you are kidding right?"

    Yet they did not know I work for the Cable Company. I bought 3 hdmi cords for 60 bucks from new egg. The price of one 4 foot from Best Buy. They really need to check themselves at the door.
     

  11. F1refly

    F1refly Ancient Guru

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    i thought circuit city got rid of commissions?

    anyway, those college kids in that store and best buy dont know much at all about what their selling, i've had them ask other employees and even so much as to read the info card under the item and read it back to me as if i'm too stupid to read it myself lol. if its not on the info card they dont know squat
     
  12. Ajoobajabajeeba

    Ajoobajabajeeba Master Guru

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  13. Marri

    Marri Ancient Guru

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    Cables actully do make a difference , not saying ur entirly wrong , just saying if your using HDMI 1 with some XYZ 1080p TV , one that requires HDMI 3 , using HDMI 1 , your most likely to have trouble..
    Screen flickering , picture breaking , pixles , sound etc etc...


    Other then that...
    For every one else..
    I'll talk about my experience with Monster Cables.
    They really are that great ,might not entirly be worth it for many.
    But for those who really do want to juice out that extra rich ,sharper picture.
    A monster Cable will help there.
    There are many more expensive cables , I saw one for 600$ (German Brand)
    only 8 feet long !

    Even with the Xbox 360 , Monster Componet makes it look photoshopped compaired to standard component !!
    And no ,I am not kidding ,I bought and tested it my self!
    IGN ,has a review on it.

     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2008
  14. TheGr81

    TheGr81 Master Guru

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    I never EVER listen to a word a sales person in a store tells me. I tell them I am just looking and once I decide I want something I tell them. This is one reason I buy most of my electronics and computer related stuff online. I don't want to deal with some moron trying to give me bad information.

    Here's an example. Last November I was out looking for a new HDTV. I knew I wanted a 50 inch 1080p plasma. I went to HHGregg and was looking and one of their sales people came up to me. I don't remember how the conversation went, but at some point he asked me if I know what the P in 1080P stands for. I told him progressive, and he's like, no it stands for pixel. WTF????? He gave me his card but I immediately left the store. I came back the next day and purposely bought it from a different sales person so that first guy did not get the commission.

    Do not ever EVER buy any type of cable in a store. If there is one thing they will rip you off on it is the cables. Order them online and a great place to do it from is monoprice.com. Not only are their cables of good quality and cheap but they have great service as well. I received one bad cable and they shipped a replacement the same day I e-mailed them without asking for the broken one back.
     
  15. Marri

    Marri Ancient Guru

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    Sales people sometimes really do say supurbly funny **** !!
    Go to a Sony guy , he talks about how Sony bangs Samsung , talks about why Samsung's cheap and Sony's expensive because they use far superior pannels etc..
    Go to a Samsung guy , he bangs Sony for being a no go company using it's pannels etc...

    Then go to a Plasma Sales guy , he bangs LCD's...lol
    To to a LCD guy , he yapps about banging Plasma , calling it old tech..
    Most of these people are as confused as their customers are most of the time...
    Just trying to do their job , from their Sales perspective...
    If u buy something wrong , it's your fault..becasue it's not good being so simple all the time..
    Becasue people end up ripping u off...

    Most Plasma Sales dudes , refuse there are burn issues any more..
    I used 2 a few months ago for a few hours and man...
    The freakin burns alot faster , then I could ever have imagined.. (5mins)
    My TV's Menu Display , got burn..
    I could see the color settings , while watching a movie..lol
    Maybe that was just me...
    I dont know !
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2008

  16. ST19AG_WGreymon

    ST19AG_WGreymon Ancient Guru

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    You are partly right. The cables do make a difference when using analog cables (i.e. composite, s-video, component) because interference is a likelyhood. But because HDMI is an all-digital signal there is no room for interference, the signal is either off or on. The only way an HDMI cable will "not" work, is if there is something physically wrong with the cable. Once again the cable revision doesn't matter, it's a marketing gimmick. The HDMI revisions only apply to the ports themselves. A $5 HDMI cable is just as good as a $100 cable. Hence a "1.0" cable will work with HDMI 1.3 ports and so on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2008
  17. Arctucas

    Arctucas Ancient Guru

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  18. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Ancient Guru

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    Again, QFT.

    I cant believe there are people still arguing that a more expensive HDMI cable will result in a better image. A digital signal cannot have any form of interferance, its not susceptable to it, you'd lose the whole signal otherwise, people would be sat looking at black screens all day long.
     
  19. roguesn1per

    roguesn1per Ancient Guru

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    A higher quality cable will do nothing

    A Cable with different Rated Specs, Supporting hdmi 1.1 to 1.3 Can change things
     
  20. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Ancient Guru

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    lol, seriously, the cables are the same. You cant get a 1.1 cable vs a 1.3 cable. Its a marketing gimmick.

    HDMI versions only count towards the HDMI port itself. Its the two HDMI ports that need to be able to communicate with eachother, the cable is only the transport medium and it doesnt need to be changed, it will work the same with every other version of HDMI until they change the port layout. The cables dont change one single bit.

    But at the end of the day, believe what you want. I guess its impossible to teach someone who doesnt want to be taught :/
     

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