HDMI Audio 192kHz

Oh, thank you! I will have to try this.

Meanwhile I no longer think that my problem is just an edid problem. I tried another blu-ray that is 96kHz rather than 192kHz. However it played at 48kHz, same as the 192kHz blu-rays.

 

I updated the firmware in the NAD M51 to the latest version (1.50). The new firmware does not appear to fix the problems.

Does catalyst or crimson offer any control over audio settings? Or is the AMD High Definition Audio configured only from the control panel sound app?

 

Did you try to roll back your Audio Device (from 10.0.0.2 to 10.0.0.1 under Sound) and Audio Controller (from AMD to MS version under System) drivers in the Windows device manager?

 

So far I have not rolled back any drivers, after previously testing several older versions (and the older card) a few days ago.


AMD offers an EDID utility for download:

http://developer.amd.com/tools-and-sdks/graphics-development/amd-edid-utility/


Running this utility it looks like the M51 is reporting that it indeed does 192kHz, even if Windows doesn't see it. Admittedly I am a bit rusty reading hex dumps, though the first thirty odd years of my career were spent in programming and in software engineering.

I will revisit this when sober. Meanwhile I just bought a Gefen HDMI EDID Detective Plus:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/ext-hd-edidpn.jsp?prod_id=14859


It came tonight! I'll see how the EDID it captures compares with what the AMD utility sees.

 

Thanks to post this Edid tool, i know others but not this one.

IMHO your problem is not OS related but only driver related.

I doubt that a "Detective Plus" will solve it with cause you say the EDID shows 192 support so no problem with HDMI hand shake.

If you can use passtrough and WASAPI it doesn't matter what directsound show it can handle because it will be bypassed.

I recently bought a DR HDMI to solve hand shakes problems with my AV receiver in a HTPC. (No signal on resume, sound or image)

 

I'm about to leave for work and still have not wired up the Gefen, but I loaded last night's AMD hex dump into the Gefen software, which thankfully displays the EDID data in a more human friendly format.

The short answer is that, yes, the M51 is saying it supports 192kHz. This is good, because it means I can still read a hex dump correctly. But bad because Windows says the M51 (connected to the Nano) does not support 192kHz.

I believe under Windows 7 it is possible for an inf file to override EDID data. I wonder if that could somehow be the problem?

 

Just an FYI guys, you can't decode LPCM, LPCM is uncompressed audio.

2nd, the human auditory system is unable to listen up passed 20kHz, 17-18kHz for a grown adult, so why even bother with anything above 48kHz? Unless you're doing auditory research on sea mammals, You really shouldn't worry so much.

 

By decoding I mean PowerDVD downsampling the audio stream rather than sending it unmodified to the DAC as it comes from the Blu-ray disc.

I admit, my hearing is mostly shot, due in part to a Heathkit audio oscillator, good horn tweeters, and a fondness for lots of wattage in my youth. Not to mention a few rock concerts. I am 68 years old (but a girl, so that may grant me an extra half kHz or so).

Whether or not I can hear the difference between 48, 96, or 192 kHz, the choice (and the ability to try the experiment) is being taken from me. I can only get 48kHz from a 192kHz disc and I am not pleased.

Not to mention that the sampling frequency and filtering can have an effect on phase relationships at audible frequencies.

P.S. I thought sea mammals used low frequencies for communication.

 

A further update:

The newer Windows 10 system I've recently been building has the same issue with the NAD. The sound properties do not list 192 kHz as an option. However it still could be a problem with the Nano or the Nano drivers.

This week I bought an Oppo Blu-ray player. The Oppo has no difficulty sending a non-decoded 192 kHz bitstream from a 192 kHz Blu-ray to the NAD.

 

how about using some other audio output instead of apparently problematic HDMI

SPIDF/Optical/Coax... USB. anything digital

 

Any of these outputs will send the audio converted to a different format (PCM at least) and that means the audio will not be bistreamed.

Only HDMI using wasapi (NOT direct sound!) can deliver non processed audio to NAD/AV receiver from PC at 192.

 

I assume you're talking about evil windows mixer, resampling, direct sound etc...
There are too many myths on this topic(100% volume being my favorite ), but suffice to say Direct Sound has been fixed in win 8.

You're wrong in practical terms (there is zero audible, and barely any measurable difference between wasapi and DS),

as well as in theory.
Because you can send untouched audio with non-HDMI output, at the very least with SPIDF:

 

I don't see evil anywhere.

Yes, you can bitstream over SPIF at max 48 kHz and he specifically ask for 192 kHz.

It doesn't matter if we can distinguish it or not.



AFIK SPIF is limited to 48 kHz 2 channels PCM or 5.1 compressed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF

 

OP's receiver is stereo. two channels of uncompressed PCM is perfect

Btw what kind of bistreaming are we talking about, if ALL AUDIO all audio is converted to 192Khz/24bit?
that's not untouched

 

Perfect? Why?

OP's receiver is stereo and support 192 kHz if it receive an audio stream from a source (DVD audio) that is stereo at 192 kHz without any convertion THAT is perfect in my book.

Converting it to an indermediary format to send it over an old connection like SPDIF that can't hanlde it it's not "perfect" at all.

There is no need to convert an 2 channels 192 kHz audio stream to send them from a PC over HDMI.

Use WASAPI.

DVD-Audio standard support 192 kHz for 2 channels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Audio

This is only needed to send it over Spdif if audio stream is > 48 kHz.

I have a few DVD audio with audio streams at 192 kHz/2 channels and i don't need to convert them to any intermediary format to send them to my Onkyo TX 636 over HDMI (or gigalan).

What i found interesting is:

(same source as above)

PowerDVD is not an option aymore...

P.S.: I'm writing this on a tablet (over a phone connection) in the middle of nowhere, sorry to be slow.

 

It seems to me that Bitstreaming is totally application dependable.
Jriver, PowerDVD, MPC-HC etc...

So I don't think there is a single bitstreaming solution for all uses of PC.

And even in cases where it's straightforward like Jriver/MPC - I find it more of a hassle due to volume control issues.

Anyway check this out for WASAPI vs ASIO vs Kernel Streaming vs DirectSound on Windows 8
http://archimago.blogspot.hr/2013/06/measurements-part-i-bit-perfect.html

Indistinguishable:

 

I never said I wanted all audio converted to 192 kHz/24 bit. Right now I'm happily listening to a CD rip and the NAD display reports "44.1 k". But if I play a 192 kHz track I would like it to reach the DAC at 192 kHz, not 67 and two thirds kHz or whatever. This seems too much to ask.

 

I know it's crazy...

 

I'm not arguying with you about the difference in sound (or noise) or our capacity (or lack) to perceive it.

Personally i will not be able to distinguish it.

But that's not the point of the discussion, OP asked for a way to send 192 kHz and i explained the better way to do it: without convertion.

When i want to send DVD-Audio audiostreams192 kHz from my main PC to my AV receiver i use HDMI with WASAPI as medium and Foobar with DVD audio plugin.

For the few SACD (2.8/5.6 mHz) i have i convert them to 192 kHz FLAC with Jriver and biststream that over HDMI to my AV receiver.

I have a nice huge collection of movies and the major part has 192 kHz DTS-HD master audio/ True audio stream i use Kodi in my HTPC with WASAPI over HDMI to watch them on my TV (via AV receiver) and hear them in my 5.1 setup.

Kodi also support SACD/DSDIFF (DSD (dsf)) but i prefer to convert it all to flac 192 kHz using Jriver.

That's my own experience and i enjoy it every day.

Edit: My AV receiver support DSD input (including 5.6) but i prefer to use FLAC 192....

 

From the article you linked:

"The simple message remains - stay bit-perfect and stop worrying." This is all I ask.