HDCP: The start of the end of the BYOB days?

Discussion in 'The HTPC, HDTV & Ultra High Definition section' started by f00dl3, Jun 5, 2006.

  1. f00dl3

    f00dl3 New Member

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    Is HDCP going to be the start of the end of the "Build Your Own Box" days? In all honesty, with all this Trusted Computing technology (starting with HDCP) being implemented this is a serious concern, because from what I have heard the Trusted Computing model relies on every device in the system being compatible and sharing the same keys, and the only logical (and possible) way to enable and ensure this is through OEM manufacturing.

    Additionally, attempting to play Trusted content in a "build your own box" environment will be illegal and a violation of copyright law from the things I have heard.
     
  2. Toji

    Toji Active Member

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    HDCP is useles if someone figures out how to bypass the authentication process alltogether. Basicaly hack the driver or firmware so that any key or no key will work.

    Blu-Ray drives and HD-DVD drives will impose a HDCP authentication video data read by these devices. Windows XP and Vista will have software and Hardware HDCP implementations to play back full HD on standard monitors. Basicaly it has to detect a monitor, not some video capture device. This way you can't record videos from VGA or DVI period. MS can't stop people from recording from component cables, thus ICT comes into play has analog outs are protected by both marcoblocking (already present on most feature films), plus resolution will be reduced to 540p, thus making High Def capture from analog pointless.

    However Blu-Ray and HD-DVD developers are promising that most movies for the next 5 years or so will not have ICT. So those who don't have HDMI or HDCP enabled DVI ports don't feel screwed.

    But when ICT is implemented people will already be using their PS3s and Xbox 360's to rip HD movies, via modchip or soft-mod.

    to me it's pointless to stop people from doing it. The thing is that, most DVD rips floating onthe web are poorly encoded. While it may be sufficient to most users, HD rips would not look that much better than DVD rips and be much larger.

    Once DVD is obsolete, HD movie rips will look so awfull (compared to the actual HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movie), it may make people want to buy the real deal.
     
  3. Joey

    Joey Ancient Guru

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    They pretty much have cracked HDCP. And that will probably make things much worse. All those devices which currently use HDCP could be blocked out from a newer system.
    Apparently it's piss easy to crack. It only uses 61bit keys and a German professor has already stated that he can do it but is frightened to release whatever he has come up with. Which is fair enough.

    I found an interesting thing about how the theory of that might work on digg.
    Here. http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=1005

    So basically it's just a matter of time before little 'in-line' cracking boxes show up on ebay. There is no business in that yet though as Hollywood hasn't given them a reason 'fix' this (stupid, unnecessary, badly made) DRM. Once they use it, it will be instantly obsolete and need to be updated. Which can't be done without buying yet more new hardware and that won't go down too well.

    However, as you said toji, they aren't going to start to implement ICT. Mainly because to record directly from a DVI/HDMI or component output; raw 1080p requires some serious hardware and effort. It comes in a something like 2-3Gb/sec for the digital connections. Just to get that to a hard drive you need a pretty hefty raid array. Then you have to edit and convert it to a format which is a bit more manageable.
    Of course there are people out there perfectly capable of doing this but it's not like DVD where you can buy a couple of drives and backup the ISO's of your entire DVD collection. Recompressing overnight so that they can fit on your PSP or ipod, watching them on the train. That’s what Hollywood is afraid of. They lose the control. From their point of view the Russian mafia selling pirate HDDVDs is nothing compared to that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2006
  4. f00dl3

    f00dl3 New Member

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    It's nice that you guys know it's been "cracked" and stuff, but the problem is I am against that type of illegal activity. I think the people who crack encryption like that for any purpose, especially involving illegal activities, should be line up and shot like those people in Haditha.

    The real problem here is not the cracking of the encryption and the pirates who will still be pirates after this, but the thing I am concerend about is the fact that it will be impractical to build your own computer after this Trusted Computing model is out in full.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2006

  5. HanShot1st

    HanShot1st Maha Guru

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  6. Joey

    Joey Ancient Guru

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    Well I think it should be illegal for film studios and hardware companies to work together raising prices and forcing customers to re-buy content and hardware which works perfectly well; just to create business for themselves. This is exactly what HDCP is. It is a weak attempt at ‘protecting’ content and leaves itself wide open for a repeat cycle of hardware replacement in the future.
    Oh wait a minute that is illegal.
    Considering you don't know much about this technology or the issues surrounding it (And I don't pretend to know everything) But it's a little stupid to suggest that people should be shot for not blindly following the exact word of the law. The law isn't set in stone and has to evolve along with society for it to be relevant and effective. Or maybe you think we should be strung up for stealing a loaf of bread or lobotomised and shocked for having even the slightest mental illness.
    The DMCA is a joke that violates the law of free speech just for starters. Maybe you should do some reading before making ridiculous statements on subjects you have no knowledge of.
    Cracking encrpytion on your own, legally purchased, content. Has no moral complications AT ALL. Your morals come in to play when you decide what to do with that content afterwards.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2006
  7. Cornelius

    Cornelius Master Guru

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    It's not illegal to crack your own hardware. You own it, you can do what you will. It's what many refer to as "fair use".

    Copying is illegal and wrong, and while I don't agree with your sentiment of lining people who commit copyright infringement (a misdemeanor, btw) and shooting them, it should be punished, but not at the expense of the consumer.

    Rootkits, HDCP, trusted computing, DRM, et al have given more of an incentive to pirate media rather than actually buy it, since at least the pirated version isn't crippled in some form by malware (see Sony rootkit fiasco) and will display at full res on my Dell 24" widescreen (the 2405 doesn't have HDCP).

    If we shoot the pirates, then we should shoot the RIAA/MPAA as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2006
  8. Fle@

    Fle@ Member

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    I make a copy of all my dvds with zero compression so if the kids ruin its just a waste of $1.45 blank dvd and not the store bought .

    I feel I have the right to do it

    Last nov I made this PC for encoding,gaming and at nite a small home theater for my self in den.

    I am sure theres a work around coming out for HDCP too many need and if not just watch normal dvds on normal roms like I do at 19by12 on DELL 2405FPW 24in
     
  9. bernek

    bernek Ancient Guru

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    you should be shot too for saying that :(

    what your father is a cop and your mother is a judge ? Wanting somebody's death isn't nice you idiot. You should talk about killing people cause you do NOT have the smallest ideea of that means !

    I saw here people in Romania shot !!! in the Revolution 1989 december !!! I would want to see that again .... hundreds and thousands of people were killed ! by tanks and by machine guns :(

    You nasty boy watch you language and don't you talk about death.

    You were wiping your nose when that happened maybe ... 1989
     
  10. Beren-OneHand

    Beren-OneHand Master Guru

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    when they (the RIAA and MPAA) start playing by rules, i'll start playing by rules. its that simple.
     

  11. Sprecker

    Sprecker Ancient Guru

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    I for one am against making money from the copy right laws. Period. The copy right laws were put into place to protect the artist's work and to give them recognition. Not to line their pockets.
    I am not against any one from making a living from doing what they do as an artist. Nor am I saying that people shouldn't be payed for their intelectual property. I am saying that copy protection is being abused by the companies that finance artists.
    I should be able to copy the entire works of any artist I want as long as I am not taking credit for the work or selling/distributing it without compensation to the original artist. I know this is the problem.
    Work being distributed for free is killing the art business but if they stop trying to rape us with the prices so they can all get rediculous amounts of money for a 2 min song, a 2hr movie or a ???. Well, it's just the music and movie industry that gets the most money from a really small amount of time given to the end buyer.
    To me the way the copy protection laws are going it will soon be illegal to whistle a popular song, quote a line from a movie or even draw your favorite cartoon character. It's getting out of hand. These laws are to protect the artists work and give them the recognition, not to friggin' line their pockets so that their name becomes more valuable than their work. Content over quality is all this will and has lead to.

    Sorry for that. I am done.
     

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