Guide: AMD Ryzen 7 Memory And Tweaking Analysis

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. chispy

    chispy Ancient Guru

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    Thank you Hilbert for this great guide/review of the memory scaling/ cpu overclocking on Ryzen cpus. That should put to rest all those comments that Ryzen 7 it's not a well suited 1080p gaming cpu. Performance will keep up Ryzen with more mature Bios as well. That's only the tip of the iceberg :D , also we have to look forward for a lot more software optimizations side of things that should bring out even much more performance out of it. All in all Ryzen it's bringing what most of us were waiting for , an affordable 16 threaded cpu for future proofness. 8 core 16 threads it's the new 4 core year 2017 and going forward into the future.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  2. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    Very nice article! It´s crazy the performance Ryzen gains by using faster memory. But paying more than 200€ for 16Gb of RAM seems too steep, at least for me.

    Hilbert, rergarding Vega, do you any info about a possible release date?
     
  3. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    So it seems for 1080p games, you get roughly 1FPS for every 100-200Mhz you go up. Not bad.

    I wonder if the performance impact is greater on the lower-core systems, since they'll be less starved for bandwidth.
     
  4. Arbie

    Arbie Member Guru

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    Thanks for this unique piece of work... haven't seen any such analysis elsewhere and the results were surprising. I didn't expect memory bandwidth to have nearly such a large effect on apps and especially on games. Very good to know when thinking where to allocate the cash.
     

  5. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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    Nothing official no, but logic dictates May/June, in that Computex timeframe.
     
  6. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    The Linux driver has been submitted, so it shouldn't be very long now.
     
  7. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    That´s longer than i can/want to wait... Looks like my only options are the 1070/80 or a cheap Fury.

    Anyway, thanks for the reply Hilbert!

    Also a question regarding this article: is it possible to overclock the RAM on Ryzen??? This way people could buy cheaper quality RAM with lower speeds and overclock them to decent speeds and save money on the process. Because i don´t think most people want to shell out more than 200€ for high end memory kits...
     
  8. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    Great article. Wish you can consider adding ARMA 3 and Fallout to your reviews in the future since those are also cpu bound games in lower resolution and those gamers need all the IPC + MHZ it can get.

    When Vega comes out, I want to see Crysis 3 for old times sake since that game scales with cores, IPC and MHZ!

    For me, it is a no brainer. Ryzen 1700 + FAST expensive ram is a better buy than a 1800x or 1700x cpu as the faster ram allows the cpu to run at its maximum.

    I got my current RAM JUST for ARMA 3 alone and it made back all that money spend by enjoying the game instead of hating the single core performance.
     
  9. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    To my recollection, 2400MHz is the "normal" maximum speed of DDR4 RAM. Any modules sold at a higher frequency are just binned parts that are known to be able to go faster. That being said, any modules beyond that speed are already considered overclockable. It wouldn't surprise me if a 3000MHz module has the silicon quality to reach 3200MHz too. However, if you bought 2133MHz RAM, there's a good chance you couldn't exceed 2400MHz.

    It's really no different than, for example, buying a 1700 vs a 1800X. They're the same thing but one is just a binned part that is [supposedly] higher quality. That doesn't mean you can't reach a higher overclock on cheaper models, but you're taking a risk that you can't.
     
  10. Ricepudding

    Ricepudding Master Guru

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    It is nice to see a great benefit from the higher ram frequencies however how much would the CL14/16 matter on these, i noticed the lower ram was all CL16 while the higher ram was CL14, not to sure how much of a difference this would make if any and maybe the results could have been a little different?

    I've also heard from other people that keeping ram at 3200 or above can be difficult in the long term, specially to people who want to use there pc 8+ hours a day at this setting.

    This also makes the whole AMD is cheaper thing a little mute :/ when you have to spend around 200 extra to get the fast ram and still fall short vs the intel front. Though some drivers in games seem to be helping which is awesome
     

  11. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    So people can just buy some DDR4 2400Mhz RAM and overclock it and that´s it. Extra performance on Ryzen without having to buy some super expensive RAM...
     
  12. Zeblote

    Zeblote Member

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    There's still something wrong with the memory latency... why is it almost double that of mine (~47ns)? I'm using 3000Mhz cl15, which should be slower, not faster.
     
  13. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Yes, people can gamble that, but there's no guarantee the silicon quality will offer stability. Like I said, the parts faster than 2400MHz are binned, and are basically pre-overclocked. Really all you're paying for is the guarantee that the RAM will run at it's advertised speed (given the CPU/BIOS will keep up...) but since the part is known to exceed minimum quality requirements, it still could run faster. In other words, I'd say getting a 2666MHz module has a much greater chance of reaching 3200MHz than a 2400MHz module has of reaching 3000MHz.

    Think of it like the core unlocking days. You could buy a triple core and gamble that you can unlock a perfectly stable 4th core. Some people lucked out and got 6 cores. But there's also a good chance you'll unlock something totally unusable. Overclockable hardware isn't really any different. If you want to be cheap, you're going to have to take risks. You have to be mentally prepared for the idea that you may not tap into any performance improvement.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  14. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    But buying modules that are specific to the higher clock speed is suggested. It's never advisable to expect a RAM module to run faster than advertised.
     
  15. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    I´m suggesting this because i always overclock my RAM and never had problems with. Of course my experience is limited because i´m on my second or third rig but so far i had no problems.

    For example, i´m already "playing" with my new system and i already managed to OC my cpu to 5Ghz and my RAM from 2800Mhz to 3200Mhz and just by changing a few BIOS settings... As for total stability, i still didn´t have time to test it.

    This way Ryzen buyers could have some more performance without having to buy RAM at stupid prices.
     

  16. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    2800MHz falls under the description of "exceeds minimum quality requirements", and a 400MHz overclock isn't a big leap for DDR4, so it's no surprise you managed to achieve what you did. I'm sure your system is perfectly stable, and since you have an i7, I don't think you really need to go any higher; you wouldn't really notice a difference, and going higher may require you to increase your latency (which isn't worth it).

    IMO, there's generally no problem at all buying cheaper hardware that you intend to overclock, as long as the desired speed is within 15% of the stock speed, regardless of silicon quality. Maybe 20% if it's a binned part. If you need to go faster, you have to prepare for disappointment. Otherwise, you pay the arbitrarily high price and not have to worry about the "what ifs".
     
  17. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    I understand i just think this could be interesting for those buying Ryzen CPUs. They could buy memory kits at reasonable prices and then overclock them and get a nice performance boost instead of forking out 200€ for RAM.
    One of Ryzen´s strong points it´s the price but that goes out the window if people have to buy expensive RAM for Ryzen to show all his potential.
     
  18. eclap

    eclap Banned

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  19. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    It´s almost the same...:D
     
  20. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    You do have a very valid point that Ryzen's value plummets if you make up for it's performance via expensive RAM. Assuming Ryzen is pretty mostly limited to 3200MHz (which so far is the highest I've personally seen) then you're completely right - spending $/€200 isn't worth it. Personally, I think anyone would be fine spending half that and do a minor overclock. 3200MHz, as you have exemplified, shouldn't be that hard to achieve (after the upcoming BIOS updates).


    Whoops my bad.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017

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