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GTX 680 pre rendered frames 0?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by krojf, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    But 10 ms is practically 0. Your whole body works on a 80 ms delay. Let alone the 100-300 ms delay between what a game wants to display and what we finally see on our monitors (which guru3d has an interesting article on).

    Assuming for a second that prerender to 0 actually did anything in the first place, I do have a question though. What possible profit motive could they have for removing it. On one hand - they removed it because it was misleading. Sounds fair. On the other - they removed it because they simply don't like you? Got to be something I'm missing.
     
  2. Iruwen

    Iruwen Master Guru

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    And microstuttering doesn't exist. It's all a myth. Thanks for telling us the truth.
     
  3. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    They said they removed it because they felt it had no perceivable effect on input lag, but the folks at NVIDIA are wrong.

    I have to agree, 'practically zero' doesn't equal zero. At 75 Hz or 60 Hz the difference is even more noticeable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  4. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    You could word it that way, sure;
    "They said they removed it because they felt it had no perceivable effect on input lag making the option misleading."

    We know this. What I'm asking is, assuming that the end of your post IS correct- and they knowingly removed the option that lowered input lag, what possible motivation could that have to do that?

    Also, you are taking what he said out of context. That 10 ms frame delay at the very least existed on both the "1" and "0" setting in the old drivers. He also argues that possibly a larger delay may have existed when using 0 compared to 1. (which is why I said at the very least).
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013

  5. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    I don't know that this is true, but it is a theory of mine. Motivations might include preventing newbies complaining of poor frame rates because of improper settings, reducing invalid benchmark scores compared to the competition, etc
     
  6. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    Alright. I can see that. Then again the only people who know this setting is even there let alone actually change it is pretty much just us geeks, it just doesn't make sense in my head to upset a small portion of people who used the setting and then have reps come out and defend its removal just to satisfy your above theories. No?
     
  7. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    Nope, but that's what I've seen NVIDIA do many times over the years as an NVIDIA customer. They giveth features, they taketh away. I'm used to it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  8. Prophet

    Prophet Master Guru

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    I wish you would talk more, they often make me laugh (your comments).
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  9. Prophet

    Prophet Master Guru

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    Afaik AMD hasnt had it for years. You can still change a reg entry through att that changes it but I dont think it actually does anything. So its no disadvantage in terms of competition. And its probably less work for them somehow.


    So good to see you guys are starting to see this my way, even if it took you a few months :) Some people can never change opinions, much less in public. My hat off to you sirs.

    Then theres the question if that will actually give you and advantage in games. My theory is sometimes very rarely probably yes but mostly no. But it just feels so much better having stuff react instantaniously. And since every device adds a bit of input lag I like to keep every part of the chain as fast as possible.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  10. mootyful

    mootyful Member

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    Is it possible to mod the gtx 700 series to having pre rendered frames to 0? I think if i remember correctly, directx10 + didn't support it, but older games using opengl or directx9 can benefit from it.
     

  11. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    Probably not. But you can try it. Either it works or it doesn't.
     
  12. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    I havn't bothered with this setting anymore when i found out it dropped my Framerate by 15-20 is many Games.

    I got used to Input Lag by now.

    It's up to Game Developers to fix the Input Lag issue by allowing a Hardware Cursor. Problem solved.
     
  13. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    That doesn't solve much for those of us who aren't RPG gamers..

    Just cap FPS if you're GPU limited or vsync'd. It helps minimize input lag in almost all cases.

    If you still have lag, your graphics options (anti-aliasing etc) are set too high.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  14. mootyful

    mootyful Member

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    TBH max pre rendered frames set to 1 is fine, I don't have any input lag issues. I just came from ATI and setting flip queue size to 0 actually made a noticeable difference. Just thought it might be worth trying with nvidia.
     
  15. Prophet

    Prophet Master Guru

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    Setting flip que in att or any other tool doesnt change it below 1. It sets the registry entry but it doesnt affect the driver below 1.
     

  16. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    Sometimes there was no noticeable difference between 0 and 3 even. It depended on the game, and whether you're CPU/GPU limited, etc.

    Sorry Svarog, what I meant to say is that hardware cursor isn't a one-all solution to input lag. Most of the games I play don't even display a cursor on screen during gameplay.
     
  17. mootyful

    mootyful Member

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    Flip Queue Size 0 definitely made a difference, on Windows XP atleast.
     
  18. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    There doesn't have to be a cursor. An increasing amount of games are starting to use Raw Input for the mouse, which is basically the same thing, rather then windows messaging.
     
  19. BenYeeHua

    BenYeeHua Ancient Guru

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    Ya, but I think he means that how long until you finally see the result of mouse movement is showing on the screen.

    So far I don't feel much the latency caused by per-rendered frame, as the low performance of CPU might also limited it to 0-1 per-rendered frame. :D
     
  20. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    Definitely on XP. With newer Windows versions, NVIDIA has stated that 0 wasn't really supported.
     

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