GTX 295 Holds On To The Crown

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce' started by LedHed, Sep 23, 2009.

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  1. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    I'm kind of disappointed, I wanted to see the 5870 actually beat the 295 so we would have a performance crown with a single chip :( Oh well, at least I don't need to even consider upgrading for a year at least.

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5870_8.html

    Here are a few of the benches I'm basing this on:

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    The 5870 does pull ahead in a few games, but most of those are games that aren't well optimized for Multi-GPU architectures.

    With ATI pricing this card at $400, it's going to be a tough sell against the GTX 295, only DX11 will persuade buyers if they have looked at benchmarks. I guess pulling a single chip out of their hat that can knock off 2x GTX 275 (GTX 295) was a pretty hard feat.
     
  2. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    crown of dual gpu but not single!

    time will tell how it does with the catalyst drivers. not having to worry about sli kicking in or not is major factor for me.
     
  3. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    Single Card Crown is what it has always been, when the 4870X2 came out people surely weren't separating it from the GTX 285 due to dual chips.
     
  4. DSK

    DSK Banned

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    Why not base it on guru3d reviews anyways?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009

  5. Tat3

    Tat3 Ancient Guru

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    Thats what Anandtech said too

     
  6. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    if you are saying crown because of out and out fps then ok the 295 wins. but in my opinion basing a "crown" or "winner" based on sheer fps is somewhat short sighted.

    in terms of 285 v 295. i know which one i prefer. and dont get me wrong i did like the 295 it just had too many issues for me..

    if u want ledhed call it the king but i think you are flogging a dead horse somewhat.

    i think you'd have to be silly to buy a 295 now when the 5870 is here..
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  7. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Can you not get the GTX295 in the states for any less than $500?
     
  8. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I agree, but I also think you'd have to be silly to buy now anyway, when nvidia has a new lineup right around the corner.
     
  9. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    I don't think I'm flogging anything (the 5870 just hit the market...) meaning only now could this comparison be made and many people that had issues with the 295 had a faulty Dual PCB card (I had to RMA 2 times before getting a cherry model). I don't know about you but I certainly do base the performance crown on FPS...what else could you base it off of?

    You think it's silly to buy a faster card that is only ~$80 more expensive?

    I didn't say anything about power usage or DX11 or temps, I was simply talking about the Top Performance Crown; which is the GTX 295.


    Right here is one for $469.99

    http://forums.guru3d.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=3284264
     
  10. morbias

    morbias Don TazeMeBro Staff Member

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    Or if we choose the graphs that weren't deliberately selected for the original post...

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    Sure, the 295 wins overall, but it's a lot closer than you're making out Ledhed ;)
     

  11. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    I said that the 5870 wins in some of the titles, largely due to the applications not supporting multi-GPU setups very well. It's in the OP, I just didn't think I needed to show every single benchmark.
     
  12. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Well I'm not exactly sure what you expected out of the 5870. I mean, it's extremely rare that a new refresh performs twice as fast as the previous, which was only the case with one card, the 8800GTX. It was fairly obvious that AMD didn't have the money to redesign the architecture and quite frankly didn't need too. From the start I've pretty much figured that all the 5870 would be is a doubling of the 4870. It just makes sense economically and design wise. Their drivers are already heavily setup to optimize the performance on the 5 SPU architecture that the R600 and on had.

    Even with Nvidia now, I don't think the GTX380 or whatever it's going to be called will perform any better then a GTX295. I mean, even with an architecture redesign, it's still rare for a card to double the FPS of the previous generation.
     
  13. morbias

    morbias Don TazeMeBro Staff Member

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    So you just so happened to show the ones which favoured the 295? haha ok :)

    Anyways, there is something wrong with that HAWX benchmark. ATI dominates in that game with DX10.1, that's definitely iffy.

    The way I see it, ATI are ahead now, but Nvidia will be a few months down the line. But then ATI will bring out the refresh, then so will Nvidia, and on and on.
     
  14. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    yeah u have a point. but right around the corner? think its a least a month no...?

    tbh i cant see nvidi's next gen are going to be so powerfull as to merit their increased price tag. we will see...

    @ledhed carry on with the 295 is the fastest gpu etc. it is on paper and i for one would have liked nothing more for it 2 have worked with all my games but bottom line is it didnt. (personnally sli for me with mmo's was a nightmare..i wont take the risk again because i tested all with a single gpu and whilst fps were less the smoothness and fps drop/stability were much much better).
     
  15. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Well they normally don't refresh that quickly, I have a feeling an AMD refresh will be like summer/fall 2010. And I have a feeling that Nvidia's cards will be out before the end of this year.

    To me - especially at this time - several months is right around the corner. I don't see any upcoming games that are going to require the power that these cards push out. Hell my friend is running an 8800GTX still that plays almost every single game he plays at 1920x1200 with no issue. Once SC2 comes out I'm probably not going to play anything but that for a while and that game could probably run smooth on a 7800GTX.

    The only thing that is semi-interesting is DX11, but whatever. I have no problem waiting slightly longer to make a better decision.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009

  16. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    It's no more strange than those Need For Speed Shift benches.

    Also NVIDIA is in a great position due to the fact that the transitioned the 295 onto a single PCB so that it can compete price wise based on what comes out (meaning it's much cheaper to produce so they can lower prices if needed). NVIDIA is still winning with a card that is almost 10 months old, I expected it to be a little closer.

    It's faster in my machine...just because you had a bad apple doesn't mean all the 295s are going to perform sporadically. I mean anytime you purchase a Dual GPU card you have to accept the fact that driver determine your performance in any games that don't have native support SLI/CF.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  17. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Well from an economic perspective, why would AMD even care? Nvidia probably sold a fraction of the number of GTX295 cards AMD sold in their midrange. I mean, no one goes "Man nvidia has the fastest card on the market, but since I can't afford one, I'm going to buy their $100 card, not because it competes well with the ATi card, but because they have the fastest so it has to be the best!"
     
  18. LedHed

    LedHed Banned

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    You'd be surprised, why do you think ATI/NVIDIA fight over the crown so much? It most definitely causes people to buy from that manufacturer. I mean hell, just making numbers on the model higher will cause people to buy them; i.e. 8800GT/9800GT/250 GTS
     
  19. morbias

    morbias Don TazeMeBro Staff Member

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    Yeah, those Shift benches are also a little odd looking.

    I wouldn't worry about prices, I think the 5xxx prices might go up due to lack of supply. That's what happened when the GTX 295 launched, prices went up within a few hours of release once all the retailers had had a chance to see what price point their competitors were selling them at.
     
  20. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    If it was that big of a deal for AMD, they'd just launch the X2 on the initial launch. Or just produce a single card chip with 1800 or even 2000 shaders. It's not like they were strapped for space. The only thing that adding more shaders would do is change the price, so they obviously felt that coming in at a higher pricepoint wouldn't be economically sound for them. Remember, AMD is still a couple million in the hole.
     
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