Graphics Card Prices are on the Rise Again

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. kruno

    kruno Master Guru

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    You know they can't increase supply on demand.Neither AMD or Nvidia have their own factories, they need in advance "buy" time in Fab, months and sometimes years in advance, there are others who are eager to fab something on leading edge, phones comes first to my mind, and second this mining stuff is "bubble", nobody knows how long it will last, so it is reasonable that neither AMD or Nvidia wants to commit resources to make more cards. Bitcoin is one week up second down, one moment they are selling dust from their GPU warehouses and the next market is flooded with second hand GPU's that panicked miners are selling because bitcoin is down. You simply can't have normal supply and demand market in that kind a situation, when demand is based on level of panic in bitcoin market.
     
  2. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    Even if they have increased supply you wouldn`t even notice since alot of the cards never make it to retail... they buy in bulk under the table from the distributors.
     
  3. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    They don't need years or even months in advance for something fully completed. All the details are already contracted including production rates in case of X or Y event.
    Yes I would notice, because then stores wouldn't be picked clean even at full retard prices.

    They're not increasing production because it's all calculated. With how insane prices are now they can release the next generation at even dumber prices and people will think it's a steal. That and of course they'd prefer to sell less at higher prices. Their Daylight Robbery division has teams devoted to calculating every penny out.
     
  4. sverek

    sverek Guest

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    I think you give AMD/Nvidia too much credit. Yes, while they try their best to get profitable and please stock holders, they are far from perfect.
    However if they got good product that they know for sure will sell well, they will produce it like pancakes.
    See what Zen did. See what Pascal did.
     

  5. kruno

    kruno Master Guru

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    I am not talking about GPU design, i am talking about fab time , remember what happened with 20nm at TSMC, Apple bought all of fab time and production, that is the reason we didn't go 28nm->20nm->14nm, but waited couple more years and couple of same old arch on 28nm instead of new GPU's on 20nm. Fab time and production costs a lot,they can skip the line, but are you willing to pay the price of new GPU costing 2x,3x,.. or more
     
  6. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    Might have been true 6 months ago, but the fact of the matter is that everyone and their mum wants to mine since bitcoin since it hit public attention via cnn (hitting 10k)ect.

    lets say that 20 out of 60 cards do make it to a store, I can tell you that there are more than 20 idiots in a 100 mile radius willing to buy a multiple gpus at 2x msrp to mine crypto coins. all it really takes is 1 idiot with ok credit willing to take out a loan to take 80%+ of the local supply in a given area.

    remains to be seen if they really are idiots however.. sure is quite the easy way to leech money , anyone with the ability to put together ikea funiture can do it.

    the fact that the multiple hd 6970/6950s i saw on craigslist at 100$+ were gone in a day is enough to know that this issue is systemic, no one in their right mind would buy at those prices.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  7. 0blivious

    0blivious Ancient Guru

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    Like Milojko, I'm also maintaining 4-5 gaming rigs for myself, fiancé and the kids. Good thing is everyone is currently in good shape for 1080p gaming because new prices suck now and used cards are getting too suspect.

    On the used market, we used to be worried someone overclocked a card to death, now it's that someone prostituted it out to mine 24/7 for it's entire life, the bottom b!tch.
     
  8. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    So am I. And that's preposterous. The fab time is already part of the contracts long done, nVidia have fab time reserved including specifications in case of shortages. Anything Apple bought "all of" was of what resources remained after considering what's already contracted.

    It doesn't matter what can or cannot be directly seen. If there was any notable increase in production we wouldn't be seeing mid range trash tier (build) cards flying off the shelves at over $1K a piece. And something old as what you mention can't mine crap, the cost of electricity pretty much anywhere would be more than it could mine.
     
  9. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    they can mine cryptonight based coins just fine, 300-330h/s for about 50-65w when undervolted, which is better than some newer nvidia cards people use..... they are definitely still profitable to use.
    Now that i think about it, they would probably pay themselves off pretty quickly even at 100$ .... makes more sense now....
     
  10. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    So, anybody want my two 5770s, that ran for less than 9 months, for 500$ each? :D
     
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  11. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    Im assuming not many people commenting on this topic run their own businesses, its simple economics chaps. If demand outstrips supply then you profitere, if demand drops then so will the price in order to maintain cashflow.
     
  12. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    You are probably right about not many people having their own business, but you don't have to at all to understand this. (And many here have said the same as you in other threads etc.)
     
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  13. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    Im wondering how many people, when the 1080Ti came out, thought they would jump in quick if/when mining became common knowledge to the general public. On a flight sim forum i told a guy who had a 1060gtx to buy a 1080Ti on release day then hold his 1060gtx as its value would rise, he did and saved himself a lot of money once 1060 prices started to boom.
     
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  14. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    hehe that was some good advice!
    Same I am already wondering what to do with my 1080Ti once the next Ti will be released... sell it for mining with a big plus on the price compared to what used cards went for a few years back?
     
  15. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    It would be a blessed day if more big countries/country groups began to crack down on mining. China and South Korea are a good start, but I hope it won't stop at that. Aside from the outrageous video card prices, mining is consuming a lot of electricity for absolutely nothing. Cryptocurrency mining produces no intelligent results at all for all the power consumed. It's not like protein folding computing for biochemical/medical purposes. Even trying to look for ET signals is a billion times more intelligent endeavour than computing algorithms that were simply made complicated for the sake of making them complicated, which is cryptocurrency. Of course benchmarking is the same thing, but nobody does those 24/7, not even benchmark tool developers.

    But then again, it's not like electric heating in houses would be forbidden. It would be bloody hilarious if in some southern country somebody was running a mining rig and AC at the same time.
     

  16. kruno

    kruno Master Guru

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    And that is what i am talking about,these contracts are made long ago,fab time and production is reserved long ago,now comes something new , something big, outside contract,outside if X happens we will do Y ..., and that is cryptocurrency and miners.They buy quantities well outside agreed contract, hell wasn't that long ago story about some miners leasing Boeing 747 to get them their cards faster instead waiting couple weeks to get them by boat. But cryptocurrency market is to unstable and miners demand for cards is to fickle for both AMD and Nvidia. For them to go to TSMC and renegotiate new contract demand NEED'S to be much more stable
     
  17. pegasus1

    pegasus1 Ancient Guru

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    I have mine under water and and running at over 2ghz on a 4k screen, il keep it until the 1280Ti comes out or if there is a sudden evolution in game IQ drop to my 1440p monitor.
     
  18. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    You see that in Africa, where mining uses incredibly much electricity compared to what the general public uses in electricity. OrPapua New Guinea. Or some of those Middle / Southern American countries. Or Oman / Jemen. And it's not Iceland or Greenland, where cooling effectively means opening a window :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
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  19. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    Electricity must be way cheaper where you are. For my area it wouldn't even be close, it'd be easily be in the negatives using a 69xx.
    Old fab setups are far easier to get going, it's obviously not the same process as a new generation of... anything. If nVidia's contracts didn't specify anything for large spikes, and they really can't produce large quantities, that'd be hilarious.
     
  20. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    well i mean, I checked the math, even if you were living in hawaii, where its 33cents per kwh, 300h/s at 65w which is worst case senario would still be profitable
     

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