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Graphics are Progressing But Games Are Not

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by Yecnot, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. Xenotone

    Xenotone Master Guru

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    Personally I think things are going great. We're no longer at the mercy of big publishers, we've got genuine innovation in the indie scene, crowd funding, and PC gaming is doing better than ever. New engines like UE4 are pushing graphics to the limit and VR is finally a real, tangible thing. What's not to like, OP?
     
  2. Dorlor

    Dorlor Banned

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    Good! :p

    Yeah, i wanted to post it, cause i think our memory plays tricks on us in regards to crysis 1... we remember it as being AMAZINGLY beautiful, and it WAS miles ahead of everything else we had ever seen back then. But if you look at it today directly compared to some of the new graphical gems, it sorta pales, as would be expected from an 8 year old game!
    But compare crysis to anything up to about 2010, and crysis will be clear nr1. It was actually Crytek that started moving the bar again with their next crysis titles, though not to the same degree that the first crysis did. You could actually max crysis 3 out on a relatively modest 680 2 way sli setup.

    But now we dont have crytek to be the pioneers anymore (their financial issues and moving to f2p), and i have my doubts that any other developer will take the risks they did. As in making a pc only game, that really moves the bar graphically, that barely anyone (if anyone) will be able to max out, with the potential loss of sales that could cause from people not being able to run it on their potato machine.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  3. Dorlor

    Dorlor Banned

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    I completely agree... majority of games are catered towards the consoles, and then ported to pc with least possible resources used, if it even comes on pc.
     
  4. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Look at the Crysis games after #1... the others have been downgraded graphically just to run on consoles, so you know where the wind is coming from. Crysis 1 was innovative, as was the engine at the time, but that was a one shot, the games and how the engine was used afterwards did not convince me it still is one of the power houses for PC gaming. Just my opinion though.
     

  5. DocStrangelove

    DocStrangelove Ancient Guru

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    Crytek almost went bankrupt. That's what you get for developing just for PC. Can't blame them really.

    And feeling bad about Valve.... Gabe just saved you guys from a broken Batman game via Steam Refunds.

    Seriously?
     
  6. GetMax

    GetMax Member Guru

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    It was EU laws that made valve change their rules. It's easy to think that Gabe would do it from the kindness of his heart.....
     
  7. Hootmon

    Hootmon Maha Guru

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    Good point.

    Multyplayer used to be an add-on feature. Now it is the focus and any single-player mode suffers for it.
     
  8. Kezen

    Kezen Maha Guru

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    There is innovation in the indie sphere (No Man's Sky for instance), there are boundaries to be pushed but in the AAA space creativity is stiffled because of budget inflations. How can you be daring creatively challenging when you need 5+M copies to break even ?
     
  9. Herbert0100

    Herbert0100 Ancient Guru

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    Most indie games lack the budget to create something truly great. No man's sky is a great idea but it's not a complete experience. It still looks great but nothing had come out for ages that I've wanted to continuously play to the end. Yet in play metro half life any of them and even say Warhammer space marine and love it. Games lack heart at the moment. Gta is the best competitor for me. Only my opinion sorry if I've offended anyone.
     
  10. gsc

    gsc Member

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    And thats the main problem today...

    Gaming Industry: "Games need to be accessible to EVERYONE, even the large amounts of individuals of all genders featuring underclocked mental facilities!!!"

    Someone mentioned we not go ahead and blame consoles, but they are to blame for a big part of that unimaginative, repetitive, derivative, popularistic, shallow drivel we get offered nowadays.

    Why is that (re. Consoles):
    Consoles are easy - Plug and Play

    Gameplay Options on Consoles are limited - can only do so many Key Combos w Hand-held Pacifier and buying an optional Keyboard for a Console means spending extra Money and Effort hence not "easy" anymore, we (Gaming Industry) dont want that! Also, might just as well go ahead and buy a PC then, we dont want that either!! (why, see below)

    Consoles are designed to deliver pretty Graphics by default since - see above: everything else is weird to do w consoles and requires additional effort from gamer which is undesireable.

    Consoles deliver a fixed set of parameters for which to program for, making it easy to code something and it will run - no dealing with the eventualities the myriad of PC HW/OS combinations out there offer.

    Combine all three and you see why consoles are responsible for a big part of the decline in actual "Games" - "Games" defined as "More than a somewhat interactive, pretty Postcard to play with"

    Graphics are easy - Graphics are something you can see (obviously) - Graphics are not some abstract construct requiring extra mental focus to come up with and code - Graphics are not some concept the Moron with the Handheld-Pacifier and/or the Knob with the $599 manufactured PC ("INTERNET-READY, E-Z ACCESS, WINDOWS INCLUDED FREE GIFT, USES NEWFANGLED ELECTRICITY!") has to grasp first and if he/she/it doesn't, starts complaining in our support forum about it with a post containing lots of misspelled, one-syllable words - Graphics rule!!!

    Now, Consoles aside, everything has basically been done before, so derivatives are common by default BUT...instead of improving actual content such as AI / Physics (Ballistics etc), we get Graphics, the same old shat in a new wrapper.

    Everything is about making as much Money with as little effort as possible in the Gaming Industry nowadays - it's turned into Hollywood: Standard drivel in a new setting, cash, repeat.

    Recent example, since it was mentioned: GTA5

    Pretty Graphics - LESS content than previous GTA titles - worse AI than previous GTA titles - worse physics than GTA4 and, to make it EVEN worse, HALF the content of the reduced overall content the "game" comes with is reserved for online only, which means grinding or spend EXTRA money buying "Shark Cards" aside from HAVING to play online - MONIES!!!11ty

    Another examples re Monies:
    "Early Access" + "DLC":
    Unbelievable the Money-Making schemes the Gaming Industry comes up with...
    "Here is an unfinished product - be "SPECIAL" and unique and PAY us to play it and report Surprise Features (Bugs) and when we're done and release YOU only have to PAY us $10 MORE to get the release version featuring at least half the Surprise Features you reported 6 months ago already!! Will be fixed in first DLC for 5 dollares!"

    Anyway, out of the what, 500+ Games at the fingertips, good portion of which this and last years so-called AAA titles, not a single one is even worth considering aquiring - it's all turds in a pretty wrapper and worse - 50% are console ports at least if not more (speaking of consoles, huh)

    There is only ONE game out there which is going the other way, somewhat forced due to funding mind you, but which was designed this way - replay value. Its from 2001, it's WW2 open-world, its subscription based, it's realistic ballistics/damage -no hitpoints, and struggles on today, 95% of the graphics are bad ie 2001, its online only, the learning curve is very steep and even a, by now, 10-year veteran can still learn new tricks / approaches / tactics and STILL get one-shotted by a 30min nob w a rifle at 400m if not careful - everything around you moving / shooting / screaming / dying / cursing / flying / strafing / bombing / tanking / going berserk / making a joke / discussing the implications of the decline in the ozone layer upon the potential mating rituals of individual self-aware cobble stones in Lithuania is another player somewhere whom has stuck with the game past the first 1-2h and gotten hooked for aforementioned reasons.

    Why is this game struggling? GRAPHICS and LEARNING CURVE
    Graphics suck, theyre mainly from 2001 and some from around 2005-7 and such
    Learning curve - want to play inf?
    Fine: no markers, no kill messages, no point and click insta-hit bunnyhopping medi-kit sandbox fixed spawn BS - you get hit, you bleed out or die outright, watch your step!

    Wanna play Tanks? Fine: no markers, kill messages, automatic repair module / upgrade insta-hit E-Z drive BF style hitpoints BS - a 20mm can't penetrate a Sherman76, deal with it, no matter how many rounds you hammer at it, no hitpoints - cant penetrate means CANT PENETRATE - get something bigger or hide!

    Wanna play planes? Fine: learn how to take off first, srysly...

    Wanna play High Command, moving Units HOI3 style but more complex influencing everyone elses play and the strategic/tactical options on the MAP? Fine: Get a basic course in psychology first and learn how to play chess but with unit timers / supply in those units and all that...

    No, it's not H&G

    90% of Games today are shallow cash-cows and not worth the effort even to watch a YT "Gameplay" video...
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015

  11. Smooth Operator

    Smooth Operator Member Guru

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    Even though it's more of the same, the destruction in UC4 impressed me, that **** should just be standard now in every game. What's the point of making things look realistic with PBR and the like if they don't react how you would expect!
     
  12. DocStrangelove

    DocStrangelove Ancient Guru

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    If it's the EU laws, why is Steam the only game service with a consumer friendly refund policy in place?
     
  13. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Uh, Origin has had a consumer friendly refund policy for 2 years now.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  14. GetMax

    GetMax Member Guru

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    I think others will have to follow sooner or later, at least the big services who can be held responsible for selling you a broken product. Maybe Arkham Knight gave them a push to quickly change their TOS.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  15. SerotoNiN

    SerotoNiN Ancient Guru

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    I think graphics are fine, we don't make such huge leaps graphically because they aren't there to make. When everything is photo-realistic, then where do they go? They needed to slow down the pace.

    I blame consoles. Kidding. Consoles have nothing to do with it.

    I do hate the lack of A.I in games and the multiplayer push just seems like a way to get around that...

    It seems like devs are just stagnant. Complacent. And why the heck shouldn't they be? For every thread like this full of complaints about the medium, a million copies of Call of Ops Battle Warfare sells. They have no reason to try to be innovative until people quit buying the recycled crap they keep putting out.
     

  16. DocStrangelove

    DocStrangelove Ancient Guru

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    Nice, didnt know that. :eek:

    Btw, Origin offers a bonus atm:
     
  17. LadiesMan32

    LadiesMan32 Member Guru

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    There's no winning for developers really. Sorry to say it but from what ive seen gamers are huge complainers. They complain when games are copy and pastes of each other (ie assassins or cod,) but then when a developer tries something different, gamers complain thats its different and "isnt true to it's original routes." This probably leaves developers scared to try anything new, you get trolled either way but im sure its still safer to make the same old thing.

    As of lately i say that witcher 3 is a game that pushes in the right direction in terms of changing gameplay/ ect. IMO its shows that an open world rpg can have great characters, voice acting, interesting quests especially side quests, and a world that feels alive. Unlike others that have tried and failed ie skyrim and DA:I.

    I think graphics are fine at the moment, i think something that would really add to games is to make them more dynamic, interactive and destructive. Like in witcher 3, the wind physics in the trees is amazing! Make realistic weather effects, wind, puddles, make it real. I wish everygame had the effects as if they all had physx
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  18. DocStrangelove

    DocStrangelove Ancient Guru

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    True, the gfx madness needs to stop. What matters are the game elements that make a game fun imo: interactivity with the world and NPCs, static and dynamic story elements (different paths depending on player decisions & different endings) and intelligent AI learning from past encounters with the player.

    Wish all games had a NEW GAME+ mode, where the game studies your gamestyle and tries to get you into uncomfortable situations: if you are playing like Rambo the AI tries to sneak around your back, if you're a sneaky git the game makes enemies work together in larger groups etc etc.

    That or a game should be totally random, you never know what enemy comes up next.
     
  19. Dorlor

    Dorlor Banned

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    Gfx madness needs to stop?! You are on a graphics enthusiast forum for goodness sake! I will personally always crave for higher IQ :p
     
  20. DocStrangelove

    DocStrangelove Ancient Guru

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    But still gfx madness enthusiasts can be reasonable, can't they?! :D

    Hey come on, be honest - if you had the choice - what type of game would you want?

    GAME A - looks like real life (3D, supersharp textures and shadows) but it's a game on rails with some time reaction tests where you need to press the right button on time or the next cutscene fails

    GAME B - looks like Skyrim, plays like Skyrim and never ends because all quests are created randomly or after you made a decision in the gaming world.
     

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