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Graphics are Progressing But Games Are Not

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by Yecnot, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. Yecnot

    Yecnot Master Guru

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    And graphics are going slow even as it stands, especially with this 4k crap where the focus is on numbers and not actual complexity of game environments.

    No one else has a problem with damage per second still being a thing going into 2016? When are games going to stop being point and click arithmetic grinders and bullets start doing real locational damage to real bodies and not stupid hitboxes.

    People say VR is going to be a passing fad and they're not excited for it. But where else are we going to go right now with all these games only differing in genre, story, and graphics while gameplay stays the exact same (aside from gimmicks like jetpacks in COD)?

    "Next-gen" means literally nothing but playing the games you played a half a decade ago with upgraded textures and lighting. FFS multi-core processors aren't even being stressed except for ****ty single-threaded ports.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  2. Brisse

    Brisse Active Member

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    I think the answer is that most games are made for console and their hardware is way below a performance PC. This has both upsides and downsides for PC gamers. I'm sure you all understand the downsides, but the good things are that we can play games on cheaper PC's, don't have to upgrade as often and get great performance at high resolutions. (crappy ports excluded)

    Here's one thing that has been bugging me. For years now, we haven't really seen the value for money get any better with graphics cards. Ten years ago, it was usually like this: New top of the line model introduced meant prices on old cards dropped. The last few years it has been like this: New top of the line card gets introduced and is twice as expensive as old equivalent that it replaces. Old card is still about the same price as before. Performance per dollar is not really getting better at the same rate it was like ten years ago.
     
  3. lucidus

    lucidus Ancient Guru

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    AI in games could be a lot better.
     
  4. evilkiller650

    evilkiller650 Ancient Guru

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    Innovating gameplay and mechanics probably costs too much money to develop. Until gamers start fighting and requesting for such stuff, it will never happen.
     

  5. drandiiski

    drandiiski Maha Guru

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    Can we please, for once, not blame the consoles for everything? The OP is on about innovation in gameplay and mechanics. Things that can be achieved without the need for more sheer power.

    IMO it is just a bad cycle:

    -> gamers want innovation
    -> devs or manufacturers try and produce innovative products
    -> gamers dismiss them as gimmicks
    -> devs/manufacturers don’t make money and continue iterating on the same stuff that makes money
    -> return to step one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  6. DocStrangelove

    DocStrangelove Ancient Guru

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    Calculation speed is a limited supply in a cpu, so it's no surprise game developers use the power of a cpu where is counts and supports the game.

    No one wants to 'waste' power on something the player would never see or even know of its existence.

    Real bullet damage on real surfaces .... what is fun about that? :p i rather have a bigger environment with lots of random stuff to interact with. It's also a matter of taste of course. There are SIMS and ARCADE action games for a reason.
     
  7. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    Games are not progressing for two reasons in my opinion:

    tecnhical: it´s "easy" to improve graphics but improving A.I., physics and better animations are a bitch and extremely costly to develop. Not to mention that we need extremely powerfull hardware to run amazing graphics, advanced A.I. and realist physics all at the same time. So just cut them of games to make a better profit...

    creative: games developers don´t want to admit but they have ran of ideas a long time ago!... All they can do now is remake the same stuff over and over again... Just like Hollywood and the music industry... Even the porn industry suffers from the same problem! All their movies seem the same...:roll:

    I think these are the main problems why games aren´t progressing but i could be wrong of course.
     
  8. (.)(.)

    (.)(.) Banned

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    Gfx are progressing? far from it. Look at the leaps and bounds that use to be made from the early 90's through to 2005 (maybe 2008) on the PC. We're still dealing with ugly ass UE3 based games.

    The problem is developers or perhaps publisher insist on making games with bigger worlds than what either (or both) their game engine or hardware can keep up with.

    The open world model has bleed into nearly every IP out there and not for the better. Developers (if they even get to have a say) need to wind* things in a bit and focus on smaller (small as in compared to open world) games that aren't constantly having to pay the price in terms of visuals or performance for developers over keen-ness on having yet another game that is larger and more detailed then it has any right to be.

    Or, they need to start investing more in the actual console platforms and figure out why it is that first party games make third party game look like games from the previous gen with better textures.

    *Edit: how do you spell wind, not wind as in windy weather, but to wind in a fishing reel.... i honestly cant remember?:3eyes:
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  9. Dorlor

    Dorlor Banned

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    Yep... Progress from 1990 to 2007 (crysis) was immense!

    Since then, Progress has been veeeeery slow. Hell, update textures on the original crysis, and it looks better than most new games.

    Games like Gta 5 arguably has progressed a fair distance from Crysis Graphics, but there Arent really any graphical pioneers these days, which i personally think is a shame, and its largely due to people complaining if their computer cant max out the settings, rather than appriciating its cause the game has really made leaps in graphical Fidelity, such as the original crysis did, where barely anyone could max the game out (i had 8800 gtx tri sli, and i couldnt!).
     
  10. (.)(.)

    (.)(.) Banned

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    Do you really think so? Im not so sure. Obviously GTAV5 is spectacular as far as tech for open world games go. But if you were to take a screen of gtaV in first person mode guns all out and slap it next to Crysis 1, would the gap be that large. I dont know, I could be wrong here.

    But outside of Star Citizen and Elite and even then, theres not been anything for quite some time that has left me in awe. Last game i felt compelled to screenshot obsessively was Stalker SOC with enb, then again, my memory isnt what it use to be.

    Imo games these days tend to be difficult to run not because of the gfx, but more because of poor coding (excluding running things at 4k Ultra settings - 25fps ftw!#pcmasterRace:rolleyes:).

    Aahh, the 90's. Everyone including myself seemed so much more chemically balanced in the 90's. Then again, spice girls and Aqua happened.
     

  11. Hootmon

    Hootmon Maha Guru

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    I would add a third reason.

    Many younger players, Im speaking here as a 54 year old, arent willing to learn a 'hard' game from scratch. That makes the default game template 'derivative' by definition because people want to just 'drop in and start playing'.
     
  12. Darkest

    Darkest Ancient Guru

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    I'd say this is the main issue.

    Someone mentioned CoD earlier, and it's a prime example here. The game is made with a low skill ceiling, it's designed to be easy to both play and master. People can drop in and out and do fairly well with minimal effort. The skills required to do well in many older games were vastly more complex, old school arena shooters are a good example.

    You go onto the forum of any remake or remaster of a classic game and you'll get tons of people (usually young kids) complaining about difficulty. Every time I check the forums for Elite Dangerous you can guarantee there will be multiple people bitching and moaning about the game being too difficult. They'd rather be hand held and prompted until hitting a low skill ceiling.

    Innovation doesn't have to make things more difficult or complex, but I'd say it makes innovating much easier. It's worse again when people are less than willing to put the time and effort in to learn new things.
     
  13. eclap

    eclap Banned

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    Graphics don't bother me. What I miss is rewarding mechanics in games.It's all too dumb and scripted nowadays.
     
  14. Seketh

    Seketh Ancient Guru

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    Like in everything in life, progress isn't linear.

    If it was, we would all have a VTOL car outside and smartphones with 100mpx image stabilization cameras...

    Game development also becomes expensive and increasingly complex.

    Also, innovation is not always rewarded. A stupid basic mobile game with expensive DLC can make more money than a creative new PC game. Gamers are also part of the problem.
     
  15. Hootmon

    Hootmon Maha Guru

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    Elite Dangerous is the particular game I had in mind.
     

  16. Dorlor

    Dorlor Banned

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    Well yeah, im not a fan of gta 5 in first person mode, but compare these screenies :

    vanilla crysis, all settings maxed out + sgssaa x4
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    vanilla gta 5, "most" settings maxed out, exceptions being AA and vegitation
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Id say gta 5 has moved the bar on all parameters graphically, not just on textures :)

    Regarding bad coding / pc optimization, we completely agree... most games are turds in that regard. Ubisoft titles more so than most, although Unity does look spectacular, despite running less than optimal (the diplomatic way of putting it).

    But gta 5 really shines here, and rockstars approach should be a lighting beacon to all developers doing pc ports - pc gamers dont mind you taking extra time, as long as you make it properly... and if so, they will reward you, just like gta 5 has been (still nr 2 on steam sales so long after release!)

    Did you just bash Aqua though?!?!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  17. Fel8me

    Fel8me Member

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    Innovation... or trying something new is too much of a financial risk. Publishers will only invest in tried and tired formulas, as long as they keep selling they'll keep making.

    Innovation is left to the small indie studios. If they happen to come up with something and prove an audience then they get engulfed by a big player and whored out with DLC and Pay 2 Win.

    There are very few, if any, that would turn down that big cheque and stand by their art, stating that they only want the reward of creating something. Everyone wants to have their creation scooped up in some big publishing deal, so they try and create something commercial... rather than purely creative.

    It's rare to find innovation in any of the creative arts, music, film and games. They just don't get the audience because we think we like something new but we are reluctant to part with our money for an unknown quantity.

    Games are big business and most are only in it for the money.
     
  18. Brisse

    Brisse Active Member

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    Oh there sure are some, but they are making niche games/simulators that sometimes don't appeal to the masses but have small amount of very loyal fans. Eagle Dynamics is one of several developers that comes to mind. They were tied up with Ubisoft a long time ago, but they managed to break free and have successfully published themselves for several years now. And what about CD Project and GOG.com? What about Bohemia Interactive? I can keep going and make a long list but I think I made my point so I will stop here :)
     
  19. (.)(.)

    (.)(.) Banned

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    N...no.

    Wow, as much of a fan as i am of Crysis, gta look far better.
     
  20. TR2N

    TR2N Master Guru

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    I would say that graphics progression has taken a back step in game evolution.
    When you see the size of open worlds in game increasing dramatically over the last few years developers instead use an older engine and tweak it for open world instead of graphics development.

    There seems to be lately immense open world focus. Nor sure why this is seems they want the gta style of exploration but this can be deceiving as plot becomes obscure in the process.

    I do hope that graphics make a comeback. My favourite title is original metro 2033. The best of both worlds - graphics + story
     

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