Google: Antivirus Scanners are Pretty Much Useless

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    flash is no longer installed on my pc's neither is java

    I Still wont go on internet without adblocker, and AV better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it both can stop stupid from happening when stupid clicks things they shouldnt.

    yes AV no longer as effective as they use to be, but it better then using nothing. nor was AV ever ment to be able to stop hackers.

    it for virus/malware/trojan protection which again is better then using nothing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  2. David Lake

    David Lake Master Guru

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    I've been clean as a whistle since I started using McAfee siteadvisor which is now webadvisor.
     
  3. Warrax

    Warrax Member Guru

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    NOD32 is actually a pretty good anti-virus that also detect malware, it's light and not bloated. But it's true that most AVs are useless, they don't detect **** and slow down your computer sometimes by a lot. How many times I had to cleanup a computer that had Avast/Norton/Kaspersky/AVG installed...a lot.
     
  4. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Whitelists, hardware security keys, etc....all have their own weaknesses. Nothing is perfect.
     

  5. PhazeDelta1

    PhazeDelta1 Ancient Guru

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    I would trust a fart before I would trust anything coming out of Darren Bilby's mouth.
     
  6. Angrycrab

    Angrycrab Master Guru

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    'Telling users not to click on phishing links and to download strange executables'

    Clearly Darren Bilby didn't play the latest Watch Dogs 2 he would have thought otherwise LuL
    #DedsecRules
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  7. snip3r_3

    snip3r_3 Ancient Guru

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    Seriously, this was the first sane post I found in this thread.

    Do you people only read the headline of all news articles??? (Apparently this is the norm)

    "Antivirus does some useful things, but in reality it is more like a canary in the coal mine. It is worse than that. It's like we are standing around the dead canary saying 'Thank god it inhaled all the poisonous gas'," he said.

    Antivirus solutions are typically REACTIVE and not PROACTIVE. Yes, the might scan your network traffic and alert you when you try to do stupid things like download sketchy programs and/or visit some malicious/compromised sites, but if AV is alerting you, it means that you already HAVE some of that malicious data on your network environment for it to detect and try to neutralize it. As the entire AV industry mostly relies on signatures and predefined heuristics, there is a very real chance that a new piece of exploit kit/virus can work around detection.

    What the Google engineer (and not Google itself) is proposing is to strengthen other links in the entire chain. Like some have mentioned, most recent attacks are based on exploits and not traditional virus infections. Exploits go right past any AV solution you deployed on the client because your networking equipment, IP cameras, NVR, TV box, the TV itself, your smart toaster, etc. could be compromised and do far worse things to you without YOU ever noticing it (at least not right away). Additionally, if you have software on your client that are being targeted (OpenSSL, Linux kernel CoW, Flash, etc.), then AV cannot protect you.

    AV has generally created a false sense of security among users who use it. In this day and age, anything hooked up to the internet is a target. The applications and appliances that you rely on that are being attacked, and antivirus solutions generally can't prevent those. Obviously other methods have vulnerabilities, but security should be a layered approach.
     
  8. Irenicus

    Irenicus Master Guru

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    I wouldn't say they are useless. They are useless for me, as I know what I'm doing and never click on anything suspect. Haven't used anti-virus in over 10yrs and have never gotten a single virus in that time.

    But if you surf questionable websites, or you're just not very tech savvy, you're probably going to want an anti-virus.

    I see it all the time "my facebook got hacked" "i got a virus" etc....and my question to those people is always "what did you click on?" because this never happens to me, but I'm very very meticulous and careful about what sites I visit, I have a strict pop-up blocker and ad-blocker and I have a good eye for suspect links etc. But most people don't it would appear.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  9. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Believing that you are safe if you don't click stuff, is a mistake. Most big infections (see Stuxnet and Blaster) happen with no user interaction. In both cases the recommended solution is a whitelist.
     
  10. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Even with a multi-layered approach, infection is possible.

    Whether or not hardware security keys provide a reasonable level of protection depends on implementation. If it's a static key that is shared by multiple systems, obtaining 1 key means gaining access to multiple systems. The hardware manufacturer would need to implement a rolling key system where each system produced gets a unique hardware key, with no master key in existence.

    With a whitelist, it depends on how the whitelist is implemented. If the whitelist is based on filename, url or IP, it's useless.

    Security is more than just throwing out catch phases. Implementation has to be taken into consideration. Doesn't matter if it's a consumer grade security product or a commercial/enterprise grade product. Implementation will determine the level of security that is actually provided.
     

  11. Dch48

    Dch48 Ancient Guru

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    I'm currently using the latest version of Panda free, 18.0, and I get no popups because I turned the Panda news off and it also does not bog down the system in any way. Actually Windows Defender even works well and the only thing it slows down is the loading of my Downloads folder. This has always been an issue with Defender and even the greatly improved Windows 10 version still does it. Quick scans and scans with Malwarebytes are also faster with Panda but in everyday usage, neither one slows anything down. As to your second point, yes, every free AV has a way for the company to make money from it but Panda gives you the easiest way to turn that off that I have seen. You simply don't install the optional "Safe Web" stuff. It doesn't work any better or even as good as the the SmartScreen filters in Windows and IE and it is provided by a third party that collects and sells browsing information to advertisers. Bitdefender free has excellent web protection and when it comes out of beta, I may switch to that.

    Yes, no AV provides 100% protection. Especially not against brand new malware that hasn't been seen before. But, they are all getting better at that (even Windows Defender has tested well against new malware samples recently). A home user will in 99.9% percent of cases, never encounter the new stuff until there is protection against it. The 99.8% of protection the good ones give you is far better than having nothing at all. I experience the full range of what my computer offers. I game, browse, shop, bank, go on Facebook and Twitter, and have Flash and Java installed. In my 18 years online, I have always had some form of malware protection installed and it has stopped about 20 attempts at infection, a few times by some very nasty stuff, and I have never been hacked or infected because of it. Suggesting that you don't need it is irresponsible in the extreme.
     
  12. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    Just stop fapping problem solved :)
     
  13. Tuukka

    Tuukka Active Member

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    Only way off getting viruses, is to die, also take off internet (and use condom)
     
  14. zipper

    zipper Maha Guru

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    AV is mostly effective for careless and stupid users that don't look where they try to go when browsing and what to click. And there is a vast difference how fast different AV systems do react for new malware. I've been testing with recent wake of different ransom "goodies", trojans etc that do flow into my weakly protected trash account. Kaspersky is one of the fastest to react, in just some hours - Panda, Norton, Malwarebytes may take several days at least when checking via VirusTotal. So best to check which AV is good for you.
     
  15. pimpineasy

    pimpineasy Master Guru

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    i havent use av since y2k haha.. use a good host file on your devices is muy bien. or just keep a portable av on thumbdrive..
    but ever since comcast started sending letters for p2p and warez and ddl never having anything good these days. rapidshare and megaupload dying no point for me... i dont do anything risky on my pc. just windows 10 defense is fine. hell sometimes i disable that too of im having fps stutters and latency issues in games. even if i manage to do something stupido i would just zero out my drive a few times then reinstall a fresh os and bios flash.

    however, i do put a av on anyone pc in my family who is derp and gets malware from facebook. llike my grandmother she must be a sucker for farmville ads.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016

  16. Athlonite

    Athlonite Maha Guru

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    I find that all I need is Windows Defender + Opera + uBlock (and every now and then an mbam scan) and safer than the average hoes common sense is all you need and I've never had a thing infected by either a virus or malware
     
  17. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    I tried uBlock but it's very aggressive and causes some sites to not load at all.
     
  18. Asgardi

    Asgardi Master Guru

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    Yeah even Google Play Store has had malware apps which were downloaded over 2 million times before anyone noticed. Great whitelisting going on there :)

    Antivirus isn't only a pre-emptive thing that doesn't always work. It is also a way to get rid of bad stuff AFTER it gets public. Especially for non tech-savvy people.
     
  19. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Everything depends on implementation. If not implemented properly, no security measure will be effective.
     
  20. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Slightly ignorant to call people stupid and careless because they just use their computer as the tool it is for most of them.
    Most need as much protection as possible, since they don't have the time to nerd about stuff.
    Besides that, remember that most if not all Windows computers are sold with the user having local admin rights.

    Personally I prefer the proactive approach with white-lists, sandbox and lock-down.
    Which means if I should get infected it comes down to me preventing that harmful code gets isolated, I can't recommend that approach to everyone though.
     

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