Global Warming - The Hidden Truth

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by SharpyMerc, Mar 14, 2007.

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Global Warming - do you Believe?

  1. Yes, it's the worst threat mankind has faced.

    28 vote(s)
    23.0%
  2. Yes, But they've hyped it up!

    30 vote(s)
    24.6%
  3. Yes, But it's a natual cycle we're going through.

    34 vote(s)
    27.9%
  4. I don't give a damn, I'm not giving up my car.

    7 vote(s)
    5.7%
  5. I don't care , it's all about raising taxes.

    3 vote(s)
    2.5%
  6. No, it's total bull!

    8 vote(s)
    6.6%
  7. No, But it's a natual cycle we're going through.

    10 vote(s)
    8.2%
  8. No, But they've hyped it up!

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
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  1. dan182

    dan182 Master Guru

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    "Wrong again tree-hugger. You getting very good at being wrong. There are more trees on the planet now then 100 years ago largely do to efforts by logging companies AND elevated CO2 levels in the atmosphere."
     
  2. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    All right gun4hire10 you have officially proven how much of a fool you are.
    I've been to the amazon (Guyana Brazil and Venezuela, looking to go Suriname next year). Over the last decade, the tree boundaries have been dropping like a stone. Massive amounts of trees are lost, or more accurately cut down by logging companies. With that, the loss of top soil kills the fertility of the land. Do some research and if thats too hard for you use google earth once in a while.
     
  3. Icebird

    Icebird Ancient Guru

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    Ok, this actually got me to type something. For all the wrong reasons.

    @gun4hire: " There are more trees on the planet now then 100 years ago largely do to efforts by logging companies AND elevated CO2 levels in the atmosphere." You do realise that no matter how many trees we plant in different places on the earth, e.g. huge manmade forests... is not going to make up at all for the trees we lose in the rainforest every day? I'm not thinking CO2-wise, seeing as the rain forest does not contribute at all to the amount of oxygen on the planet. (This because it actually uses as much oxygen as it produces). The trees planted in California, US does not contribute to helping the very vulnerable, but very important animals of the rain forest. Maybe not important to you, but when the animals of the rain forest is gone, and that forest is nothing but a huge building site... The planet has lost something very important. Yes, it will eventually happen due to the changes that come naturally on this planet. In 5 millions years time, this planet's going to be covered in ice to the middle of France, and everything's very different.

    No, I don't believe that the global warming is entirely human made, no one believes so if they weren't born yesterday. It's a natural cycle, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't do what we can to assure that we survive. The animals of the rain forest aren't dying cause of the global warming, nor is the other endangered animals. It's cause we are killing them and ruining their natural environments. Sure, in a few million years most of them will be gone anyways - but that does NOT MEAN that we can just kill them off now to be done with it.

    Thing is, if we don't do our part to help the planet a little, it's the animals that are doomed. The planet's not going to cough over and die, it's the animals. And we're animals too. Yes, we're quite adaptable due to an extended intelligence, but we're quite doomed as well eventually. I always argue with people when they say "if we don't do anything soon, the Earth is doomed." cause it's wrong. The Earth isn't doomed at all, but we are. So you can argue all you want about it being a conspiracy, it being a natural cycle that we have nothing to do with... But you cannot argue when you walk outside one day and it's getting harder and harder to breathe naturally. Which is already happening in several of the massive cities we have built.

    And there ends my on-topic rant. The off-topic rant has just about started though.

    I actually got scared and very shocked when I read through the last pages in this thread. Grown-up men actually attacking a person cause he's younger than them - claiming that 4 years of college and 25 years of "work experience" beats being open-minded and intellectual. Just cause Nexus is 19 years old, does that mean that he's less smart than you? For crying out loud, I think Nexus has proven himself smarter than most of you plenty of times. In fact, him being young and open-minded is exactly what this planet needs! People like him are going to one day save your life, it being hidden or in the open.

    Gun4hire and Classic Satch - both of you might have more experience when it comes to things like making a living, raising children, things a 19 year old haven't had much experience in. But global warming? Has it happened during your 30 years of living, and no one else experienced it? I'm sorry, but the Earths cyclus does not change much in 30 years. 30 years means nothing in the Earth's history. Thus you and Nexus have just as much experience in it. In fact, I'd like to claim Nexus being far more experienced due to the fact that he's very open minded, and willing to change his mind accordingly. You guys are stuck in a loop. You simply REFUSE to believe that you driving around in your SUV's, wasting water, not recycling and such, has any affect on the planet. I read the thread, with an open mind, and you two come off as SUCH bullies! Yelling "Wroooong" as soon as something's posted, attacking Nexus personally with facts that have nothing to do with anything. (E.g. that he's "only" 19.). Calling people idiots? Don't you realise how stupid it makes you seem?
     
  4. Estima8tor

    Estima8tor Ancient Guru

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    When I was in elementary school back in the 1970's the general consensus in the scientific community was that we were headed for a major global cool down and possibly a mini ice age. :eek3:

    Now 30 years later it's the exact opposite. :confused:

    Taking that into consideration along with the fact that the meteorologist can't even accurately predict the weather three days in advance - I'm not quite ready to panic just yet, lol.

    The fact is the earth has been going through warming & cooling spells long before man ever became industrialized.

    When ever you see scientific reports that use language such as "very likely" or "quite possibly" or "the general consensus is" - my advice is to be very cautious on drawing any definite conclusions based on those type of reports.
     

  5. JACK4HIRE

    JACK4HIRE Ancient Guru

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    I didn't say anything about the Amazon I said the planet. I've been to the Amazon too only I was sneaking around in it and trying not to get eaten or shot but that's another story entirely.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Rainforest

    Deforestation. So what? You try and make it sound like the people are cutting down every tree in sight for no good reason. You also forget to mention that for every tree cut down the evil logging companies usually plant 2-3 new ones. Trees are a renewable resource. Duh. The days of clear cutting are long over. I'll rub your face in it too when you start the extinction misinformation campaign so watch it smart guy. People are more important then a few trees. Where are the people supposed to live and grow food smart guy? Never mind. Tree huggers think a tree is more important then a man. Am I the only one here who can see the stupidity in this dribble?
     
  6. Icebird

    Icebird Ancient Guru

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    Did you just call me smart guy and a tree hugger? Did you even READ my post? God, you just threw all my arguments down on the floor and shat on them instead of actually responding. Nice attitude and it truly shows your 4 years of college and 25 years of work experience.
     
  7. Paulus

    Paulus Master Guru

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    you should all watch this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6IPHmJWmDk&mode=related&search=

    don't be foolish and take it as gospal; but there are some credible names in this documenty, it really changed my opinion to- "no opinion".

    i'm pleased nexus has stated in plain terms he is happy to be proved wrong, as I hope everyone should be.
     
  8. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    @Icebird,

    I never "attacked" him because of his age. I merely referenced it. Big difference. Also, I have no issues with Nexus. His posts are usually just very useful links regarding helping people with hardware or software issues. I did not call ANYONE an idiot.

    I have followed this issue with great interest for many years. My conclusion is still the same-Anthropogenic global warming is a gigantic crock of nonsense. Most studies that purport it have been proven to be fatally flawed, the recent IPCC report is a prime example. It's quite sad that so many scientists are willing to put aside their professionalism in order to further what is primarily a political agenda. If you don't see that, fine, you're entitled to your own opinion, as are we all.
     
  9. Icebird

    Icebird Ancient Guru

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    An actual debate like making poor Nexus repeat himself 20 times before you actually read his posts? I'm sorry, but it seems like the two of you are still stuck in a loop, instead of maybe reading the facts and adjusting your opinion.

    What hits me, is that especially gun4hire, keeps pounding on things he's said earlier that has already been discussed and should have made his opinion alter atleast a bit. But instead it just makes him curl even more together and attack with all force. And that is what people who know they've lost do. That is exactly what happens when a person realises; "I need to defend my opinion at all times, even if I know I'm wrong, cause or else people will think I have no integrity cause I change my opinion on things".
     
  10. Paulus

    Paulus Master Guru

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    I would add that the climate is far too complex for us to comprehensively understand.. as an engineer I would therefor conclude that the only feasable approach I can see anyone taking is to make assumptions, leading to a non comprehensive model of the global climate.

    One thing i'd say for sure is that we humans are far to insignificant to actually affect or alter anything about the climate.

    We flatter ourselves by actually thinking we can do something.

    It's difficult to accept but we really need to learn our place in this.
     

  11. Woodmasterfox

    Woodmasterfox Ancient Guru

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    Oh crap...Icebird has spoken.

    I find myself thinking more and more like the european members of this forum and less and less like the American members of this forum. Its actually quite sad really, I used to be incredibly proud to be an American but the level of ignorance that is protruding into every facet of American culture at this point just makes me sick.

    Yes, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that man is contributing to global warming. Yes, the oil companies stand to lose Billions of dollars if everyone knows the truth about global warming and begins to push alternative fuel agendas. However, the two main bullies in this thread continue to hold up in their self made pools of denial.

    Like I said before - regardless of global warming we still should be doing everything we can to stop pollution and clean up our earth.

    Maybe you guys just can't see the big picture. Or maybe you have just been stuck in your mundane lives for so long you can't think outside of them. Either way, you need to realize that if we don't start becoming better stuards of what was given us, the earth is going to become a very unplesent place to live. Whether that is because its warmer, cooler, or the quality of the air is worse doesn't matter. What does matter is that we need to do something about it now.

    Lets take Global warming out of the picture. I STILL think we should look out for the planet. How can you NOT be an environmentalist if you have ever gotten up on a beautiful morning only to go outside and breath in the fresh smell of....SMOG? Seriously guys, you need to get your heads out of your asses and at least admit that we need to make more of an effort to get things cleaned up.

    I'll never forget the time that I went back to the beach I used to visit as a child and there was a nice brown layer of disguisting poison laying over the horizon because they had just re-opened a shipping lane near there. All you could smell was the diesel fumes from the ships giant engines. Ever since then I have turned totally green, into an environmentalist of sorts. I ride a scooter to work and school on nice days, I always make sure I recycle, and I hardly ever leave appliances or the air conditioner on (which is difficult to do in texas summers).

    Lets get a little bit of cooperation from you guys. Because how do you think this would look with a little bit of extra pollution?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If there is only a 10% chance that humans are contributing to global warming (because you simply cannot prove that we aren't, you can only believe we aren't) shouldn't that be enough for us to take action?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  12. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    Well put Icebird. Science is trial and error and revelations all the time change aspects in focus, but not the general picture. Damage to the environment can't simply be ignored, and the funny thing is when its gone, guess who will be blamed for not warning "them"?

    Its not the replacing of tress that will solve the problem. When a rare plant is lost, we all lose. Smart living helps the generations down the road . I remember in Astronomy magazine when they were discussing the accuracy of star trek science, the rule of thumb applies in all matters of life and survival. Better to get things fixed early than wait until it gets bad, and then fix it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  13. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    It's blatantly obvious that no matter what facts are put on the table, some people just will not accept the truth. There is zero, zip, zilch, nada evidence to support the conclusion that humans are contributing to any sort of climate change. I will not stand by and let a bunch of clueless politicians, radical environmentalists, and a biased news media impose draconian "remedial" measures that will cost hundreds of billions of dollars and untold numbers of jobs to fight a nonexistent threat.

    Well said.

    I'm done discussing this issue. I've made my points and I can do nothing more.
     
  14. Woodmasterfox

    Woodmasterfox Ancient Guru

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    Satch what the hell do you want us to do? We've given you OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE that global warming is caused by man, if you are too dense to listen then thats not our problem.

    Its quite easy for you isn't it? Any time any conclusive evidence is given all you do is throw the people that published the evidence into one of these groups: Clueless politicians, radical environmentalists (LOL at that supid term...), or Biased news media.

    You can basically describe ANYONE as fitting into one of those three categories with a little exaguration, so you don't ever have to take any of these arguements seriously do you?

    I feel bad for you Satch, I really do. Its obvious that you cannot come to terms with this, and thats okay. You go ahead and be a total sore on the environment without any guilt.

    And you still will not even acknowledge the arguement that I am making. REGARDLESS OF GLOBAL WARMING, WE SHOULD STILL BE DOING MORE TO STOP POLLUTION. Cmon satch, you have to have something to say about that? Or are you so right wing you think that chemicals usually found in poisons are good for the environment?
     
  15. JACK4HIRE

    JACK4HIRE Ancient Guru

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    Finally some polite discourse. No Icebird I called blue5 a smart guy/tree-hugger. Damn IE7. I would never insult a woman especially one who can kick my ass off this forum LOL. If you read the previous posts you would see that blue5 took a big old dump on me for no reason about 1-2 pages ago. I had not insulted him or anyone else at the time. I was just giving it back to him a little.

    As for Nexus. I was growing tired of the Spam posts one right after another. I wanted him to say what he thought not the thoughts of others on the internet alone. That is what this forum is about or so I thought. Anyone can post links to Wiki. As for his age my post to Classic was clearly in a joking/ joshing manner. I didn't insult Nexus at all. In fact I later complimented him and explained myself further.

    Now to what you posted about nature. I love nature. I'm all for conservation. I'm all for alertnative forms of clean energy. I'm all for wisely using what has been given to us on this planet. What I'm totally against is groups of people who think nature be it a tree or animal is more important then the life of a human being. I'm also completely against anyone using scare tactics and alarmist BS as a means to control people. I've spoken out repeatedly on this forum about how the US has used terrorism in this manner.

    Manicone was making points with me as he was using his own intellect in addition to citing published research to make his point. He was also polite. Nexus was spam posting and it was obvious he was not reading what he was linking to as much of it was against the point he was trying to make. He was starting to sound like a talking head for the eco-movement and spam posting is an idiotic thing to do. If I meant ill towards Nex I would have said clearly: I think you are an f'n idiot Nex. He never did actually answer my questions about Clinton by the way. blue5 poked me and snatch several times before we jumped him. He would be on my short-list if I had him in front of me.

    I respectfully disagree. I'm trying to get my point accross. Obviously people are not listening because I've said I think the Earth is heating up. I also said that I don't think man is the cause necessarily and that I think the whole global warming thing is a political football. The only person I've gotten nasty with is blue5 and IMO he deserved it.
     

  16. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    nonexistent threat?
    Even with all the evidence and experiences of the ozone hole? The use of energy can be finger pointed to industrialized nations like the US and europe because of how much electricity they use. Ever seen a night portrait of the earth?

    What is someone was to say," "terrorism" was a nonexistent threat"?
     
  17. JACK4HIRE

    JACK4HIRE Ancient Guru

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    Why would you think from what I've said that I don't agree with that? I would bet that Snatch does too.

    A good friend of mine was on one of the SEAL Teams. He was doing an open ocean swim off the coast of California. He got a bacterial infection from the water in his left leg and it almost rotted off/ killed him. I got deathly sick swimming in the water there as well. I understand exactly what your saying. I think some of us agree more then we are willing to realize.
     
  18. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    Woodmaster, you're wrong, wrong, wrong. "Dense" is the very last thing that anyone with whom I have even a passing familiarity would ever call me btw.


    http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008597

    Ok, now I'm done. Obviously some people can't see the light even when it's shining directly in their eyes. Oh well, the only thing that I can do is to make sure I vote every election and anyone who believes this bilge sure isn't getting mine.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  19. JACK4HIRE

    JACK4HIRE Ancient Guru

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    Me too. I've got to mix up some chain saw gas for this weekend. I own 10 acres of land up north and I'm going to go there just to clear cut some trees away from my cabin so it does not burn down if there is a forest fire. I doubt I will be able to hear the trees cry out in death though over the roar of my Husky. I'm going to set my trap line too and see what I can get to make a coat for my son.
     
  20. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    Good luck :chainsaw: and have fun. Here's hoping that your son gets a nice new jacket. :cheers:
     
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