Global Warming - The Hidden Truth

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by SharpyMerc, Mar 14, 2007.

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Global Warming - do you Believe?

  1. Yes, it's the worst threat mankind has faced.

    28 vote(s)
    23.0%
  2. Yes, But they've hyped it up!

    30 vote(s)
    24.6%
  3. Yes, But it's a natual cycle we're going through.

    34 vote(s)
    27.9%
  4. I don't give a damn, I'm not giving up my car.

    7 vote(s)
    5.7%
  5. I don't care , it's all about raising taxes.

    3 vote(s)
    2.5%
  6. No, it's total bull!

    8 vote(s)
    6.6%
  7. No, But it's a natual cycle we're going through.

    10 vote(s)
    8.2%
  8. No, But they've hyped it up!

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
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  1. ManicOne

    ManicOne Maha Guru

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    PuddingWagon, in a way you are right. There is definitely a kind of "marketing feel" to the push behind this topic. Politics was bound to get involved at some point. But the simple fact is it is real, and potentially crazy (I won't say scary, crazy seems a more apt word).

    Like it or not, accept it or not, it is the chemical truth to our atmosphere's recent heating.

    If you say something isn't real, but it is, does that make it go away?


    Now I'm done. The debate is over guys. It's not doomsday ffs.
     
  2. orenda635

    orenda635 Ancient Guru

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    I hate to tell you this but politics IS A science. It has been for 400 years. That's why they call people who study politics political SCIENTISTS. That's what I spend day in and day out doing, studying politics.
    Gore uses a strategy called bandwagoning. It involves getting people excited about issues to boost your popularity and hop on your bandwagon. He's very good at it. However, Gore is hardly a weather expert. He's trying to tell people that something is an exact science when it isn't. That's when politics perverts science. That's what makes the title of his movie ironic. He's basically slim Michael Moore with a dry personality.

    I don't believe there is a consensus out there just yet. When you have high profile scientists (who have not been hired by corporations) still disputing claims, there is no consensus. The debate is far from over. The problem with Global Warming is that the claims some scientists are making cannot be verified. Until they can be verified, nobody can say it's like this without a doubt. Scientists pervert science by making claims that cannot be supported through the first law of scientific method. Junk science is an umbrella term for scientific research that violates that law. I refuse to accept the existence of something that cannot be verified through proper science.

    Lol. I think we finally found an issue Infested Nexus is interested in.

    I love these debates. So much political discourse. That's how things should be. :)
     
  3. JACK4HIRE

    JACK4HIRE Ancient Guru

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    It's amazing how things can progress while you’re asleep. ManicOne I agree with some of what you are saying and other parts I do not agree with at all. I will say though that I appreciate the way you are putting forth your position on the subject at hand. Changing the subject I too was surprised to actually 'read' an Infested Nexus post. LOL. Usually we get a quick f*** you and links to 10 different web sites to support his position. By the way thanks for posting those links orenda. There was a lot of good information there.
     
  4. Kow

    Kow Maha Guru

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    I think its better to be safe than sorry. I would rather that mankind takes care of this problem when there really was no problem, rather than doing nothing and possibly seeing the planet go to crap. Besides, it gives technology somewhere to go. Oil has no future because it takes millions of years to create naturally and we're consuming it at a much faster rate.
     

  5. JACK4HIRE

    JACK4HIRE Ancient Guru

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    Not to over simplify thinks but why try and fix it when we don't even know for sure it is broken. Worse we try and fix something that we only think is broken and end up screwing things up even more.

    I'm with you 200% on finding alternative fuel sources as I loath western civilizations dependence on foreign oil which is largely held by a bunch of people stuck in the 15th century and would like nothing more then to murder all of us. I think this nation should move immediately to nuclear power as it has been proven to be safe. Large parts of Europe use nuclear power and they have had zero problems. Alternatives like bio-diesel, hydrogen fuel cells etc are also needed. In the mean time there is no reason to cut our own throats by doing something stupid like signing the Kyoto Treaty. All the Kyoto Treaty does is hinder 1st world nations and move the pollution to 2nd and 3rd world nations who are largely given a pass on the whole thing. Kyoto is part of the globalist agenda to redistribute wealth and make everyone on the planet a member of the working poor.

    All you have to do is read Chicken Little to understand the whole thing. The sky is falling...
     
  6. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    Bingo!

    http://www.sitewave.net/PPROJECT/s33p36.htm
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2007
  7. Infested Nexus

    Infested Nexus Ancient Guru

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    • More...

    • The Kyoto protocol was drafted by an international body. While a piece of legislation in the United States may conceivably be written up by a political faction with globalist agendas, there is no international globalist power which could do such a thing in this case.

      The protocol affects nations in different ways, when it was being drafted every country had there own best interests in mind.

      For example one of the beneficiaries of the treaty is Russia:
      European Union:
      The protocol would indeed impose short term economic restrictions on the United States, however such restrictions would conceivably force the energy industry to move to alternative energy sources, reducing domestic dependence on foreign oil.

    • That article is from the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine:
      More...
     
  8. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    Infested, though I usually find your posts to be quite useful, you are very, very wrong on this one. The global warming fraud is truly breathtaking in it's breadth and scope. Maybe you should make some time to watch this:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20070306-122226-6282r.htm

    Also, predictably enough, Sourcewatch and it's affiliate the Center for Media and Democracy are well-known left-wing organizations. It's a bit disingenuous to attempt to discredit my sourcing by using crackpot leftists to do it. Infested, lay off of the factually clueless liberal websites, their stupidity will numb your cognitive processes.

    http://www.answers.com/topic/sourcewatch
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  9. dan182

    dan182 Master Guru

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    tbh, id prefer the world to recycle, save energy and find other useful power sources other than fuel, whether the planet was heating up/ cooling down.

    theres nothing wrong with the altenative.

    they just introduced a new form of energy by using Waves fromthe sea just north of scotland i think.

    its just a shame peopole are so skeptical to use all the new ideas. i guess they are all new and in beta form but soon they will become as popular as any other form of energy, with a big enough push.
     
  10. JACK4HIRE

    JACK4HIRE Ancient Guru

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    Sure there is it's called the United Nations. All they do is meddle in world affairs and try to subvert nations with the very kind of crappy one-sided treaties like Kyoto. The UN is the biggest group of Socialist 'have-nots' on the planet. All the UN does is try and redistribute wealth from a wealthy nation to a poor nation, which is nothing but welfare on a global scale. Kyoto would be a disaster for the United States and western civilization. It is NOT in our best interest. That is why Clinton and then Bush told the UN to piss off. If it is such a good deal then why didn't Clinton get on board? Is he beholden to big oil like Bush is accused of being? I think not. The fact that the UN is pushing this whole global warming issue is the ONLY reason I need to ignore it just like I train my kids to ignore and then flee from the stranger who offers them candy. It’s common sense. Every thing the UN touches with out exception turns to sh*t. All the have-nots in the UN want are for the whole worlds population to be the working poor. They are trying to move the industrial base out of the United State to 3rd world sh*t holes where the population is full of ignorant peasants who are under the thumb of some tin pot dictator. They know that poor uneducated people are a lot easier to control then wealthy, educated, prosperous people with something to lose. Man made global warming is a farce. Thank goodness that there are scientists out there with the sand to stand up to what amounts to a bunch of hysterical stupidity.
     

  11. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    You hit the proverbial nail on the head there gunforhire10. The UN is a ridiculous conglomeration of corrupt scumbags who have absolutely zero credibility.

    http://www.consad.com/reports/kyoto.htm

    Screw the Kyoto Protocol. Could you imagine of all that happening to combat a problem that doesn't exist? Al Gore, please return to whatever hole you popped back out of.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  12. TheWheelman

    TheWheelman Master Guru

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    We should not fight over it's existence.

    We need to focus on people not monopolizing on it.

    I mean, afterall, it's a peace catalyst.

    If we're all in danger, we'll forget our silly foibles with eachother and band together to fight a common enemy.
     
  13. Infested Nexus

    Infested Nexus Ancient Guru

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    • More...

    • That article is from the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine:
      That article is from CONSAD:
      Even discounting any possible ulterior motives of these sources - most of the claims against anthropogenic climate change are from sources without credentials in the field.

    • In short, the majority of sources dismissing anthropogenic climate change are not from sources with scientific credentials, but economic think tanks, private research groups etc.

      The sources that believe in anthropogenic climate change are not from mainstream/liberal media sources, political think tanks, or private economic groups, but reputed organizations and scientific journals.

     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  14. Woodmasterfox

    Woodmasterfox Ancient Guru

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    God, Infested Nexus is owning everyone! Go Nexus go!

    Seriously though, you take everything that I want to say and wrap it up in such a coherent, well thought out post. I truly wish I could debate like you do. Hats off.
     
  15. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    Kyoto was designed to set a goal to reduce the emissions. If the planet is to repair, it needs time. Its bush and his oil buddies that stand to lose because a more empowered population means fewer will be bullied
    . And gun4hire10, you are not only ignorant but silly. Rather than thinking of your own hide, think of the good of you fellow man. Thinking everyone outside the US is some kind of dummy is the reason we have no respect for "you".



    Edit:Agreed, Infested Nexus has been handling each point very precise. Very skilled.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007

  16. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    Owning whom? There are just as many respected scientists who believe that this global warming garbage is a complete fraud. Infested is entirely and completely wrong on this issue. Facts and reality are in very short supply on the side of those who actually believe in this BS. They are attempting to put forth a ridiculous hypothesis and then cherry-pick data to support it instead of the other way around. Human-induced global warming is a joke but it could end up costing us hundreds of billions of dollars and millions of jobs if enough people buy into this nonsense.

    Fifteen THOUSAND scientists have signed this petition in opposition to this global warming crap.

    http://www.sitewave.net/PPROJECT/pproject.htm

    Infested, once again, is off-base with his assertions because these are most definitely well-educated and credentialed scientists. Infested Nexus may be a master of Googling but it sure as heck doesn't make him correct on this issue.

    You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion but this is just one of those issues that drives me nuts because it's so damn bogus. :bang:

    http://www.nysun.com/article/47920?page_no=1 by:

    Mr. Singer, professor emeritus of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia and former director of the U.S. Weather Satellite Service, is the author with Dennis Avery of "Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1,500 Years."
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  17. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    How exactly do you know it is a fraud, or a conspiracy? You think all the garbage spit out by industries and cars don't end up somewhere?
     
  18. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    Please read the links that I have provided in previous posts. Simplistic assertions such as that contribute nothing to the discussion. :frown:
     
  19. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  20. JACK4HIRE

    JACK4HIRE Ancient Guru

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    Hmm I don't feel owned? He still didn't answer my question as to why President Clinton didn't sign the Kyoto Treaty if it was such a good deal. In fact his responses do not address any of my questions or assertions.

    Did I make you angry honey? This is how flame wars get started by disrespecting your fellow forum members. I didn't insult you or anyone else for that matter. You just proved my point though that you can't debate a Liberal without the insults and name calling. Well allow me to retort in kind. The respect of Socialists and their ilk means nothing to me so bugger off. I'm not thinking of my own hide sweetie. I'm thinking about my 300 million fellow United States citizens. Until that is taken care of screw everyone else. You know “think globally and act locally”? The whole rest of the world thinks only of themselves but if the US of A does it then their evil. The US and its citizens give away more money, food and materials then some countries actually produce and you have the gall to lecture me? The US has done more to clean up its environment and industries then any of the Socialist nations have. Why don't you go to one of those countries lefty and see how far your stupidity about global warming gets you? You sir are an idiot and frankly your rants amuse me so keep it up.
     
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