Giant Spiral over Norway

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Makalu, Dec 9, 2009.

  1. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    Plausible, but they initially denied it was a Russian missile, and they didn't plan on launching on the 9th (wasn't Obama there?) there was a date of like the 26th of December for next launch date. If they were doing it for pride and showing off, wouldn't they claim it was them right away or even announced to everyone they were gonna do it?

    Besides they have launched this missiles at least 12 other times and they I don't recall any announcements.


    Here is information on the missile, it is a 3 stage solid fueled rocket, and it was being fired toward Kamchatka (like the previous tests, which is the opposite direction of Norway btw).

    [​IMG]

    http://majalahmiliter.blogspot.com/2008/12/production-may-be-to-blame-for-failed.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  2. wubbles

    wubbles Maha Guru

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    Russia is a large country with a complex and secretive government, you don't honestly think the people who authorised and carried out the launch would immediatly tell the entire military and the rest of the government? They would have to deny everything till they get told about it and confirm it. And for the purpose of demonstrating power they need only allow intelligence agencies find out for themselves anyway which is easilly achieved by firing it over another country.

    And why would they announce launch dates? Wouldn't that give rival countries an oppertunity to study their missiles in action?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  3. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    Again, I said it was plausible, I was just giving a counter point.

    However I find it more interested that the missile was aimed east to fly across Russia and the missile failed in it's third stage. By third stage it should already be many miles in the air and let alone traveling EAST not west over Norway. For it be traveling over Norway and for it to be off course that would have been a failure of the 1st or 2nd stage. And it is a solid fuel rocket, not liquid. There isn't much of a chance for that white stuff to be gaseous exhaust from the missile.
     
  4. wubbles

    wubbles Maha Guru

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    Because if they were firing it towards the west it would have been a huge provocation. Another possible reason is so they could monitor it better. It doesn't really matter where it is launched from or sent to if the purpose is mearly to demonstrate it.
     

  5. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    Maybe you confused? Kamchatka the target is East, they fired it East.

    Norway, is west. I don't see how it is possible it was traveling west when fired east, unless it was failed in early flight (1st/2nd stages), but it failed 3rd stage which should have placed that missile pretty far East and no where near Norway.
     
  6. Makalu

    Makalu Ancient Guru

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    well the launch site is east of central norway in the white sea and the shortest path to Kamchatka from there is somewhat northeast over the polar regions...judging from the sunlight on the horizon in the photos I think they concur with that trajectory but somebody more familiar with the areas the various photos are taken from could say better.
     
  7. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    ROTFLMFAO

    GUYS THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU OBSERVED!

    The gas is traveling outwards from the center in a spiral pattern, when the gas stops emitting, the black spot radiates outward from the center as the last gas moves into the spiral. The spiral was dispersing the entire time.

    sheesh
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  8. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Ancient Guru

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    :grin: i'd have to agree with Dustpuppy there :giggle2:
     
  9. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    From missile with solid rocket fuel?
     
  10. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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  11. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    There are many states of matter solids can become liquids, liquids can become gas. You're going to have to do better (ie name the specific fuel and show it isn't a gas under those conditions).

    What happens to solid propellants as they burn/react? Do burning materials magically disappear stolen by the mass fairy?

    What happens to various materials when exposed to low pressure? they boil

    It could easily be a leak, a mass that is solid at an atmosphere of pressure could become a gas at zero pressure. Did you know that even Hydrogen becomes a metal if you apply enough pressure?
     
  12. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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  13. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Ancient Guru

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    HAARP can be used to manipulate weather patterns and a whole other host of things, but i've never seen anything like this blamed on HAARP, even amongst the conspiracy theorists.

    I doubt it has anything to do with HAARP.
     
  14. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    If I had money I'd pay it to see them create that from HAARP.

    eta: that is the fugliest website I've seen in awhile.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  15. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    Yes I know the 4 states of matter, gas, liquid, solid, and plasma.

    The reason I brought up solid rocket point is that it leaked to create a perfect spiral out of 3-4 locations (2 white spirals and 1-2 blue spirals) how many solid rocket fuels (which in my study of solid rocket fuel is uniform) produces not only 2 different color, but can perfectly escape from a malfunctioned missile to make perfect spirals?

    And to the other poster when I look a the pictures, to me it looked as though the sun was coming up from behind the object (which would mean it was traveling from the east to the west) I even recall people saying the sun being behind the object was what was causing the blue glow (light hitting an ionized gas).

    And due to the corelious effect you don't shoot a straight line from White Sea to Kamchatka, you would have to aim the rocket even more directly east. In previous tests they didn't fire over the north pole, they fired over Russian territory.
     

  16. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    Already covered the perfect spiral, that's done by little resistance in relation to time.

    The different colors could come from either different fuels in different stages of the three stage ICBM or from varing degrees of combustion/reaction (eg the leak doesn't combust while the engine begins to only partially combust). eta: also there's more than 4 states of matter :p


    President Obama wasn't going to Norway to accept a Nobel peace prize in previous tests either. A former superpower rival firing off an ICBM designed to kill tens of millions, as the president of the remaining superpower goes to accept what was once the most prestigious humanitarian award in the world makes for quite a statement. Not to imply that I know anything about typical ICBM flight paths, just that under the circumstances I don't think a radical change would be unlikely.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  17. wubbles

    wubbles Maha Guru

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  18. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    I did not mean to imply that you thought of the missile as stationary. I thought you were thinking in the context of your experience seeing stationary or slow moving spinning objects that eject smoke. Something like say a smokebomb or some other firecracker.

    (eg you were thinking of the object as moving but not properly visualizing what its movement would do to the gaseous spiral.)
     
  19. wubbles

    wubbles Maha Guru

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  20. Makalu

    Makalu Ancient Guru

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    well what I see is the sun is behind the launch site (to the east relative to the observers) and the blue flight path goes right to left which translates to a generally northerly direction. If it was flying west then the blue thang would extend towards the observer. If I thought the path was over the north pole I would have said that instead of polar regions. You can look at a map of the arctic and account for the rotation of the earth...it'll be about something like 10-15 degrees over the course of the ~45 minute flight and yeah it does alter the path to the east. The straight flight direction during the course of the flight relative to the pole is NE to E to SE...anyway it's irrelevant so if you think it flew west and the event is overhead it's no sweat off my back.

    The third stage has to have some liquid fuel because there's no such thing as a solid fuel thruster (erm well except a recent successful experiment by NASA with pulsed plasma thrusters)...you have no throttle control with solid fuels...they're lit like a candle and don't go out till the fuel is expired or something snuffs the flame and there's no way to relight the cake. These little burns to maneuver in space are precise millisecond computer controlled events...normally.

    My theory...something either unusual in both the solid second and liquid third stage fuels (unlikely) or something unusual in the atmosphere has caused a photochemical effect like flourescence...I think the fact that nobody in Sweden and Denmark saw this shows the importance of light and observer position. I think I read a few weeks ago that the earth is passing thru the tail of a comet which may have something to do with it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009

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