GeForce RTX 3080 CTD Issues likely due to POSCAP and MLCC configuration

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    Well yes that is the whole point with GPU boost, it auto overclocks the card for you based on Nvidia's algorithm which looks at heat, power, etc, etc and then it scales on its own.

    It's still NOT a guaranteed clock speed. If these cards are crashing when hitting advertised idle or normal boost clocks then yes I would call them defective but I have not seen any reports of crashing when hitting them, it seems to be when hitting around 2GHz where GPU boost says its ok to boost but the AIB boards can't handle the overclock because of the parts used.

    Still doesn't take away the fact that they will probably just release a firmware update that changes the power play tables so the cards don't boost as high and nothing can be done about it legal wise as they never guaranteed those speeds.
     
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  2. Maddness

    Maddness Maha Guru

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    I'd say that is exactly what they'll do. It's the easiest fix for them, it just means a couple of fps less in games.
     
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  3. AuerX

    AuerX Member Guru

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    So basically the boost clocks at release are too high, and a new BIOS and drivers will adjust that.
     
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  4. southamptonfc

    southamptonfc Ancient Guru

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  5. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    Legally speaking there wont be any more trouble than Ryzen 2 not always reaching it's "up to" frequency. People will have to accept with CPU and GPU boosting themselves the boost frequency will vary from card to card and cpu to cpu and different system/case/psu. You can't guarantee a boost just a base frequency.

    This said the card should still be stable when boosting but that should be an easy fix. Cards with cheap caps will have to be re-reviewed after the fix though. Still don't think it's as big of a deal as some people think it is. You got to expect problem at launch and it's a myth that there's just AMD having those. Both nVidia and Intel had their fair share over the years too.
     
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  6. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    "Competition set the prices" Nvidia CEO

    I think the hurry of Nvidia was to release before the end of year console war of preorders and marketing campaign. There's a lot at stake for Sony and Microsoft and we're gonna get flooded by big money console Marketing the whole end of year.

    They should have made 1/2 MLCC configuration a requirement from board partners.
     
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  7. Thunk_It

    Thunk_It Master Guru

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    Excellent run down and coverage of this problem! Thank you Hilbert for keeping us up-to-date.
     
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  8. vmanuelgm

    vmanuelgm Active Member

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    Those number are the microfarads. The more microfarads, the best filtering, so 470 (Gigabyte) better than 330 (Zotac, Colorful).
     
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  9. DannyD

    DannyD Ancient Guru

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    I'm sure all guru3d cards have even been OCed a little though using best quality mobo, psu etc.
     
  10. kieron fleming

    kieron fleming Member

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    I have a msi rtx 3080 ventus no dramas on this side of the fence runs perfectly fine.

    I read there were problems so I tested the following games.

    Doom eternal
    Fortnite
    Control
    Ac origins
    Metro
    Tomb raider
    Rdr2
    Time spy
    No problems I even ran time spy on loop 5 runs no drama there isn't many of these cards in the wild so the problem isn't as big as people are making it I've seen two posts from actual owners of the cards the rest are the trolls carrying on about early adopters *cough* jelly much lol don't worry boys you'll get one by next year lol
     
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  11. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    I see.

    Founder's Edition uses:
    2x SP-CAPs 470
    2x SP-CAPs 220
    2x MLCCs
     
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  12. mohiuddin

    mohiuddin Master Guru

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    So much for " it just works "
     
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  13. mohiuddin

    mohiuddin Master Guru

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    Dont refute the problem which didn't affect your end. People telling about this problem to exist, working with far more variety of cards than you on far more applications than u have tried .
     
  14. Caesar

    Caesar Maha Guru

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  15. Fediuld

    Fediuld Master Guru

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    NGG always worked with Vega. It has a whitelist of applications that support it as supposed to be.
     

  16. Fediuld

    Fediuld Master Guru

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    Actually the majority of the Navi issues weren't driver related but motherboard manufacturers related.
    When Gigabyte came out early Spring 2019 and said "here we support pcie 4.0 on X470/B450/B350/X370 with the new 3000 series" take this bios, MSI, ASUS and Co rushed to do the same.
    AMD was screaming not to do so because only X570 properly supports 4.0 not the rest. Yet was bashed and ignored.

    Then the 5700XT came around and many used the PCIe Auto setting on their 400/300 series motherboards with their brand new 3600 which tried to force 4.0. Ofc there were issues.
    Many who reported the issue took the advice of the rest and manually put 3.0 on their PCIe in bios and issues resolved. The rest kept refusing to do so because "motherboard supports it, AMD driver issue then". Magically all problems dissapeared comes end of October - start of November 2019, when new AGESA dropped in BIOS and all the manufacturers dropped 4.0 support from the 300/400 motherboard series. Some did it silently other posted the change.

    Magically issues were gone.

    I have a X570 and 5700XT and never had issues with it. Nor anyone I know who had Intel platform or X570 motherboard assuming it wasn't something obvious like wrong wiring or trying to use 550W PSU with their brand new 9900K and 5700XT. (yes happens).
    A dig in AMD reddit will be illuminating.
     
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  17. Fediuld

    Fediuld Master Guru

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    1-3% wishfull thinking of the 3800 owners :rolleyes:

    5700XT operates around 1750-1850 out of the box and all reviews are based on it. If undervolted can do 1900. only watercooling and undervolting can do 2025 on the 5700XT AE. That is a 40CU GPU.

    Now if there is no issue with the GPU, take the 5700XT performance, double it and add an extra +30% on top due to higher clock speed.
    Some might say "might not be linear FPS improvement". True. That is why I do not factor in RDNA2 improvements :D

    Assuming the GPU is not VRAM bandwidth choked like the 5700Xt
     
  18. formula1

    formula1 Member

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  19. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Stock models I suppose for that?

    Some of the custom designs go a bit hard on the additional power draw limits in bios for very small gains (From 180w stock up to as much as 260w I think it was.) though tweaking the power limit is needed to achieve a more stable 2000 - 2050 Mhz clock speed though it's inefficient since the performance gains are quite small for what's required here, 1950 - 1900 with a good undervolt and balanced power limit with no more than needed to sustain the clocks is a lot more effective from my own testing.

    Increasing the power limit further and hitting 2100+ can be done but here many of the GPU's also need to be on higher voltages and above this water cooling is a requirement with speeds up to 2300 Mhz in benchmarks.
    AMD added a bit extra voltage but the clocks are fairly well balanced landing around 1900 - 2000 and after that the performance gains aren't all that great for how much extra is needed and under 1800 performance also starts dropping a bit more sharply.


    Black screen issues here were from what I can get at a memory related problem though there's been a number of them, 19.7.5 on the old system was about the only driver that was fully stable and then on the new system 20.2.2 and further with 20.4.2 almost eliminated the hard black screen system crashes and recoverable black screen display issues.


    Anyways that's Navi10 and RDNA2 and Navi20 isn't the 5700XT so how it performs and scales including the newest leaks here will be interesting to see in a month or so when it's unveiled.


    Getting back to the topic itself good to have more info on what the issue with the crash here with some Ampere GPU's were and how this might be resolved. :)
    Would think a software driver adjustment to how boosting is done would be how it's resolved but I suppose newer cards might ship with modified bios and bios updates released separately for also fixing the problem.
    (Or rather avoid it happening if it's a hardware thing from these components here.)
     
  20. DaLoona

    DaLoona Member

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    These cards DON'T use POScaps.....
    POScaps are a line from Panasonic and they are NOT used in current graphicscards.
    They all use either SP-caps or MLCC or a mix of them.
    See

    Igor's Lab made a mistake on that one.
    Makes you wonder what else he's got wrong, if he doesn't know already what components are used.
    And the bad thing is, everyone is taking that info for granted, even the reviewers of the cards......
     

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