GeForce 461.40 WHQL drivers: download & discussion

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Alberto_It, Jan 26, 2021.

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  1. ReaperXL2

    ReaperXL2 Member Guru

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    Please correct me if I'm wrong but the above statement makes no sense to me...

    The functions and end goal of V-Sync/G-Sync are completely different to what FRTC aims to achieve. V-Sync/G-Sync deals with tearing as opposed to FRTC which deals with stuttering Due to pushed frames exceeding monitor range/variations in frametimes & framerates.

    G-Sync & V-Sync are designed to support each other in their function to achieve a joint final goal (tear free image). V-Sync enabled causes the GPU to cease rendering & sending frames when the monitors refresh limit is reached. FRTC only comes into effect as an option if the sent frames exceed the monitor refresh limit & the frames jumping in & out of range causes micro stuttering. This can not happen if V-Sync is enabled (frames cannot exceed monitor range). In effect, you would be just introducing additional latency with FRTC (regardless of how small) for no performance gain at all.

    FRTC makes sense only if you are running with V-Sync Off (frames can exceed monitor range) otherwise V-Sync removes the need for FRTC frame limiting, especially when run in conjunction with FreeSync/G-Sync.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
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  2. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Somewhat, its more connected to what the device is also talking to besides the third party utility, the Asus Embedded controller for example has its hands in many operations of the boards system management, rgb, fan voltages, and temperatures (i believe also Rog Connect/AI Overclock). This is part of why Asus is now implementing a WMI based interface so that only one driver is directly interacting with the hardware, anything else is going through that driver instead of sharing mutexes across several drivers.

    The Asus DIP5 feature of the AI Suite is breaking driver performance in atleast Cyberpunk 2077, and only a windows repair install is the way to fix it (I haven't the affected hardware to replicate and diagnose a less invasive solution personally)

    This is just using asus as a example, but the digital controllers used by other vendors are just as likely to be effected, between 2011 and 2015 the gigabyte digital controllers on some boards were unfixable sources of dpc latency, you had to disable most of its features and return it to an analog behavior.

    Infact, what you're likely actually seeing is that once tabbed out, gsync is still being applied on the desktop which is now running anywhere between 0 fps and 120.
     
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  3. msoltyspl

    msoltyspl New Member

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    When G-Sync in windowed mode is enabled, any driver past 457.51 version has some massive issues with mpv.io player - causing it to stutter at single fps digits or worse. This kind of coincides with the addition of "background fps" setting (even though I keep it off all the time either way), though dunno if it's related.
     
  4. Martigen

    Martigen Master Guru

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    You would think so, but this isn't the case. The definitive guide to this after extensive testing is Blurbusters:

    https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/14

    And specifically this page with the two Q&As listed below:

    https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/15/

    * Wait, why should I enable V-SYNC with G-SYNC again? And why am I still seeing tearing with G-SYNC enabled and V-SYNC disabled? Isn’t G-SYNC suppose to fix that?
    * Alright, I now understand why the V-SYNC option and a framerate limiter is recommended with G-SYNC enabled, but why use both?
     

  5. Witcher29

    Witcher29 Maha Guru

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    This driver works fine but i do noticed i have sometimes sound popping while watching video,s on edge, dont have these sound popping in gaming very strange.
     
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  6. ReaperXL2

    ReaperXL2 Member Guru

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    Thanks for the links buddy ;) I'll be sure to read up on this info. I've recently embraced freesync for the first time (opportunity rather than choice) and it's been a revelation I can tell you :eek: but man it's a mash of conflicting info with regard to the correct settings :confused:
     
  7. Robert84MK

    Robert84MK Member

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    G-Sync and G-Sync Compatible/FreeSync require V-Sync (V-Sync or FastSync) Enabled to works correct.
     
  8. fluidz

    fluidz Master Guru

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    You're absolutely right, I relaunched the game with Gsync completely disabled, the mouse cursor moves fine again, cheers.

    Just a random question if you don't mind, Is it normal for games running in dx12 to ignore the Gsync fullscreen/windowed setting in Nvcp? After setting Gsync to fullscreen only, when I change a dx12 game to a window, Gsync is still active (it should be disabled). I have so far reproduced this using driver 461.51 and 461.40 (using DDU).



    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  9. Cave Waverider

    Cave Waverider Maha Guru

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    Try to toggle Right click on Desktop->Display Settings->Graphics Settings->Variable refresh rate and see if that changes anything.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
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  10. ReaperXL2

    ReaperXL2 Member Guru

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    @Robert84MK

    V-Sync is a requirement without a doubt. Fast Sync not so much due to the way it achieves sync. V-Synce prevents the GPU from rendering frames above the monitors refresh rate. Fast Sync allows the GPU to render frames at its maximum capacity but then prior to sending it looks at the monitors reported EDID refresh rate and trims the rendered/prepared frames down to match the reported refresh, disgarding what is not needed. I believe it's this change of behaviour between the two that dictates which is to be used with G-Sync/FreeSync systems.


    @Martigen


    Again, thanks for those links dude. Now re-educated myself with regard to why FRTC is used along with V-Sync.

    I think the misunderstanding with regard to V-Sync + FRTC arises because when they are both recommended together, it is never explained why this is done, as on the surface the Function of V-Sync should negate the need for FRTC. What is not explained is the fact that V-Sync does not provide a definitive guarantee that frames will not exceed refresh rate. This is due to issues created by variance in frametimes that prevents the native system making accurate judgements that can result in the frames exceeding refresh rate on occasion. to pre-empt this behaviour FRTC is engaged as a second line of defense against frames exceeding refresh rate should the system drop the ball so to speak.

    Very enlightening...
     

  11. fluidz

    fluidz Master Guru

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    Hi, they removed that setting a few drivers back.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Cave Waverider

    Cave Waverider Maha Guru

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    Odd. It's still here for me in any drivers up to 461.51 (Standard) on my RTX 3090 desktop and on my GTX 1080 laptop. I use DDU before every display driver install, by the way, so it isn't an old setting that's carrying over. I'm on the latest release build of Windows 10, though, are you using an insider build or something?
     
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  13. fluidz

    fluidz Master Guru

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    Standard version, Windows 10 pro, 20h2. Clean installed a couple of days ago.

    [​IMG]

    I just ran DDU in safe mode and this time let Windows install its own driver, 456.71 dch. This driver does not have the same issue as 461.40 and 461.51, Gsync fullscreen is back to working normally.

     
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  14. Cave Waverider

    Cave Waverider Maha Guru

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    Same version and build here, also did a clean install last week or so on my main PC, the laptop is just upgraded to the same version. It's really curious that the windows option is missing for you and not for me.
    I just checked and for me with the 461.51 drivers, if I set G-Sync to full screen only, G-Sync Compatible/G-Sync laptop in DX12 turns off properly when in windowed mode, just like it behaves fore you on the 456.71. Maybe the issue is only there for 2xxx cards but not 3xxx and 1xxx?

    By the way, changing the aforementioned Windows VRR option doesn't change things either, everything is working fine here. It's still curious that the option is missing for you, which might indicate something not being detected properly between your video card, Monitor, drivers and Windows.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
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  15. fluidz

    fluidz Master Guru

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    Mind boggling hey :confused:. I just reinstalled 461.51 (standard) on top of 456.71 dch (choosing clean install), not ddu this time, issue is back again. I'm going to test some older drivers, working backwards from 461.40 and find out at what revision this issue starts.
     
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  16. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    can you check if these pops coincide with a dpc spike?

    DirectX 12 doesn't have a context that makes it behave like full screen exclusive, the behavior is always the same as if you were applying FSO to a FSE title, its all it knows so FSO and D3D12's native DXGI context (Which is DirectFlip based) are controlled by the Full screen gsync controls rather than the windowed version.

    For the most part, you're just making life more painful for yourself by using Windowed modes on 10, the FSO behavior is pretty well implemented now and I don't think anyone can even prove that a crash or performance issue applies these days where it doesn't actually stem from things like double buffered vsync enforcement.
     
  17. fluidz

    fluidz Master Guru

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    I tested drivers 456.71, 457.51, 460.89, 460.97 - they do not have this problem. Drivers 461.09, 461.33, 461.40 and 461.51 do. Something changed after 460.97 that led to this happening and as far as I can see it isn't mentioned in the changelog. Its not that I play in windowed mode, I mostly play in fullscreen mode, but the reason I brought this issue up is since 461.09 dx12 is not respecting and adhering to the Gsync fullscreen/windowed setting in the Nvidia control panel. Is this not seen as being a bug? o_O


    Driver 460.97 (last nvidia driver without this issue)




    Driver 461.09 (dx12 ignoring Gsync mode issue)



    Complete list of drivers tested, 456.71, 457.51, 460.89, 460.97, 461.09, 461.33, 461.40 and 461.51

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTgrTWERDYktWyXlMypSv2w499FdTGIoa
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
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  18. loracle

    loracle Master Guru

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    Weird things with this driver 461.40 whql, mouse moving on it's own, gamepad disconnect disconnect, windows start flickering, wtf :confused::mad:
     
  19. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    all things that the display driver cannot do
     
  20. loracle

    loracle Master Guru

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    Maybe, but when i installed 461.51 all ok now, so how come, and some people also complains about mouse shacking not just me :);)
     

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