Gears of War 5

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by WhiteLightning, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Pay him no mind, hes a know-nothing that just fantards over lines of code he doesn't even understand.

    StarEngine (as its called within CIG) was a wreck and performance nightmare until CIG aquired the crytek engineers that abandoned that sinking ship.

    CryEngine was misrepresented to RSI/CIG in both capabilities and support scope, it wasn't the right engine for the game but they made do with what they had and have rewritten large core parts of it.

    Amazon benefits greatly from partnering with and providing lumberyard to CIG because the Frankfurt employee's who were crytek exiles actually can and do contribute back into Lumberyards SDK.
     
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  2. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Unreal Engine also has a lot of experience from the first game and titles utilizing Unreal Engine 1.0 to the massive growth for Unreal Engine 2 and what was called 2.5 and then even more so for Unreal Engine 3 and Unreal Engine 4 even with a lot of studios using in-house engines these days it's still is seeing a nice popularity too even with the "AAA" publishers.

    Cry-Engine might catch up but I don't think they have anywhere near the same resources although partnerships like Amazon and how that lead to Lumberyard probably helped but Unreal has this down from the community to going more open source and the marketplace and also partnerships and customer relationships with developers and the resources when compared to Crytek though Cry-Engine has improved since the early days of trying to branch out and be a more commercially viable license game engine or how to put it though I think they're still having some difficulties and for indie it's hard to match Unity in overall simplicity and sheer popularity too as the third of these three bigger game engines.

    It will be interesting to see what Gears of War 5 can do with Unreal and I assume a newer version of Unreal Engine 4 as Gears of War 4 even with various UWP problems (Compression for one thing, updates and other troubles.) did a really good job but then Microsoft has done pretty good for PC ports although it's really taking off now with recent efforts so it will be interesting to see how this continues.


    All in all though the engine is just a platform and it's up to the developers to utilize it, Arkham games and all but there's been ports messing up mouse and keyboard support on this in addition to changing default settings for the worse and getting basic features all sorts of wrong so it's just a platform and tool and it's still up to the devs to actually use it right whether stock or customized further from whatever code base it's built on. :)

    More so with Unreal Engine 2.x and 3.x though there's been some problematic 4.x titles too which yeah nothing really new but the engine alone can't do everything though seeing studios like Square Enix getting almost everything right with Last Remnant on Unreal Engine 3 compared to earlier and later efforts for their PC ports was quite impressive. (And then that got pulled and we'll see if that UE4 remaster hits PC or not and how this is going to change things up.) Don't know if it was outsourced or not either which can affect things as well.


    EDIT: Then again if we're talking about big publishers and licensing I suppose multi-platform capabilities is also a huge importance from Playstation to XBox and also Switch and possibly even handheld or mobile and of course PC.

    Not too sure how well Cry-Engine is doing compared to Unreal here but that's probably a factor of some importance too.



    Anyways Gears 5 and the next-gen beards of war. Ha ha.
    Visuals are still a big thing after all. :D

    EDIT: Which makes me wonder, push HDR, push 4k or push both (Bandwidth!) and then come the next generation of hardware probably that or even higher although 4k is probably going to be the target upscaling or no but I am curious if 60 FPS or even higher can be a thing.

    Seeing complaints about RAGE 2 targeting 60 and people wondering why it didn't do 30 with better visuals and all that which I assume 30 and 4k is also important for the Playstation 5 and Next XBox whatever it's name will be with better visual fidelity.

    Will be interesting to see, perhaps both a high performance and a high fidelity mode although that's probably going to be super-sampling support and 4k rather than framerate but we'll see.


    Even sitting behind a knee-high wall poking shots at enemies yelling their intentions really loudly can benefit from higher framerate and fluidity after all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
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  3. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Epic learned a lot about profiling and optimization from their experience with Paragon and especially Fortnite, which is as I've said repeatedly in this thread, a marvel of optimization on both the CPU and GPU side. Those techniques have already been implemented into the UE4, and the lessons learned are already publicly available on the net for other UE4 developers to take note of. I have no doubt that Gears 5 will deliver on both the performance and visual side in new and exciting ways, as many of the Coalition developers came from Epic so they have deep and intimate knowledge of the engine. It will be interesting to see what version of UE4 Gears 5 ships on. Gears 4 used 4.11 if I remember.



    Well they might have a 4K30 graphic mode with increased visuals, but they are targeting 4K60 for all gameplay modes; at least on the X1X. And once you experience 60 FPS, it's hard to go back to 30. Of course us being PC gamers, 60 FPS is just the starting point :D

    That said, it's possible to have your cake and eat it too. The engine upgrades that UE4 has had over the years will make a visual and performance upgrade over previous games attainable, as evidenced by the Gears 5 trailers which show a big upgrade in graphical quality and animation.
     
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  4. S.T.A.R.A.C.

    S.T.A.R.A.C. Master Guru

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    It doesn't matter if they don't use SVOGI, which is an old version because their engine is based on 8 years old C3 version. They don't use any new technologies and huge improvements of C5, in which now is called SVOTI. This can't be compared.
    And btw you talk about something you never used and experienced. What low resolution for todays standards? What are you talking about?

    This engine was the most matured engine even back then, and this is the reason why Chris decided to use it. These are his words. This is kinda funny because UE is an older engine, so it should more mature, more everything.
    Also you are forgetting the fact that Cryengine has entered console market just like 6 years ago. Before it was only PC engine. Other problem was that it was harder to use, but that has changed with C5 now. But there are so many threads on Unreal forums where people ask the question why UE isn't like Cryengine, why they don't improve it.
    Here is one thread, which is also about VXGI: https://forums.unrealengine.com/unr...pic/1466282-sooo-vxgi-2-0-is-coming-very-soon
    Here is one comment from the same thread:
    "CEV uses SVOGI (total illumination v2) and the performance is amazing. It runs amazingly well even in dense forests. It even ran well on my previous old amd card with 2gb of vram. UE4 craps itself will 10 times less foliage and no real time GI. I don't want to start an engine war here, but the time they spend integrating RTX could be spent integrating some form of performance friendly dynamic gi solution, instead of some useless technology (unless you have a NASA computer and the budget to make a movie that will make it shine, not that many people is my guess) that won't be used in games at all. Don't tell me it's hard or almost impossible because Cryengine did it YEARS ago back in version 3. I don't want to sound mean, don't take me wrong. I love UE4, wouldn't use anything else to make games, but I want it to improve."

    Every person who worked with Cryengine and UE4 will tell you the same. Btw, for smartphones much better end easier solution is Unity, so i would chose that engine.
    Fortnite isn't engineering wonder in any way. The only reason why it works good on Iphone is better hardware. I have explained this before. And btw, you can't have the same experience on a PC and that stupid so called smartphone. In fact it isn't even similar.

    I wouldn't worry about Crytek. They aren't in bad situation now, and they release new version of Cryengine every year. In fact now in August they will release new 5.6 version which will be only 64-bit. They are drooping 32-bit support completely.
    Also they make their own games.

    And about Nvidia VXGI, are you joking with this?? VXGI is a history. It has never been used in any game, and it will never be used.
     

  5. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Except thats not what reality shows
     
  6. SerotoNiN

    SerotoNiN Ancient Guru

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    Why did this thread turn into an argument about the engine used for inevitable vaporware?
     
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  7. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Fortnite also runs at 60 FPS on premium Android handsets as well, so it's not just iPhones.

    The basic experience is the same (ie particularly player count which is the most important thing), but the PC and console versions have better graphics. However, the fact that such a complicated game can run at 60 FPS on mobile platforms is impressive considering the TDP and input limitations.

    NVidia came out with VXGI 2.0 last year, and I'm sure they will continue to iterate on it and improve it. But overall I agree with XenthorX. Epic is not going to implement a real time global illumination solution until they develop one that is scalable all the way from mobile to the PC platform.

    CryEngine isn't focused on scalability the way that Epic is, so they don't develop their engine with the concern for the mobile platform.
     
  8. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    Can the Gears of War 5 thread be about Gears of War 5 please?
     
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  9. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    I agree. But we won't have any additional information on the game until Sunday so we're just passing the time :D
     
  10. S.T.A.R.A.C.

    S.T.A.R.A.C. Master Guru

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    For 5 years some people talk how Crytek will bankrupt, and yet they are still here and have engine better then ever. I don't understand this kind of attitude, like some people would love to see Crytek to fail?? What do you have from that?

    The basic experience? LoL! Experience is different between PC and consoles, not to mention these stupid phones. Especially in the games like Fortnite.

    Actually the truth is that to implement solution like SVOTI is very hard. And after implementation you must optimize it, get rid of the bugs, etc. This is a process. It has nothing to do with the mobile platforms.
    In Cryengine SVOTI is an option, so you don't need to use it, and obviously you are not gonna use it to develop the mobile game because of the inferior hardware.
    But the lack of the SVOTI in UE4 is big problem for the users because you need to spend 50 times more effort to achieve something similar. And then you have problem with performance.

    VXGI is an old news. It's an external solution, it performs like crap, and it will never be used. Nvidia is trying to push their RTX now, which is also very stupid idea. It's too early for that.
     

  11. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    because amazon gave them a once off payment.

    crytek haven't delivered anything profitable since.

    Dead company is dead.
     
  12. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    There are a few companies that are licensing their engine, plus there's Hunt The Showdown that's being actively updated and supported. So I wouldn't say they are dead.
     
  13. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    They will be once they are made to pay CIG's court costs and lose the CIG vs Crytek case.
     
  14. SerotoNiN

    SerotoNiN Ancient Guru

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    Wouldn't gaming be more fun if you just played games and didn't worry about this sort of stuff?
     
  15. S.T.A.R.A.C.

    S.T.A.R.A.C. Master Guru

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    Amazon didn't gave them anything. Amazon bought Cryengine 3 for a large amount of money. Basically Amazon bought Crytek's old Cryengine 3 technology in 2015, because couple of months later in 2016 Crytek released Cryengine 5, which is very different and improved engine, very scalable and easier to use, and performs much better. They have completely changed user interface, improved rendering pipeline, implemented new SVOTI which performs much better, improved draw call performance, and many more things. Also they have implemented support for Vulcan and C#, and obviously DX12. So now you can work with C++, C#, and their internal Flowgraph visual scripting tool which is written in C++ like entire Cryengine.
    This is one more advantage over UE4 because their visual scripting tool Blueprint isn't written in C++, so if you create your game with Blueprint it will work slower because of overhead.

    This selling of the Cryengine 3 to the Amazon was actually great move, because they were already in the process of creating Cryengine 5. Since release of the Cryengine 5 in 2016 they have made 5 big updates, and the next update will be released now in the August. I think that big problem for them was Crytek's founder Cevat. While i respect his enthusiasm to push technology like they always did, he has totally forgot to make his engine more user friendly and more scalable. This was a mistake.
    Btw, Cevat has left the position of the CEO, and how they work differently.
     

  16. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    who is worried?
     
  17. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    So your whole point is UE4 is for mobile because it doesn't have real time GI solution, is that it ?
    That's the most stupid thing i've read in years lol.

    Or maybe is it because you don't like the design choice of Fortnite, in which case i'll remind you Paragon, released in 2015 on consoles and PC, which was looking good enough for Nvidia to use it as promotion material for their GTX serie 10XX cards unveil/reveal in early 2016.

    All i see from your post is arbitrary points, not a single fact
     
  18. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    most of the best looking games in recent times have been on UE3 or 4.
     
  19. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    The experience between consoles, mobile and the PC platform in Fortnite is exactly the same. The only difference between them is different graphical settings, but other than that, all gameplay modes and player count are the same.

    So what if there is a better solution out there than SVOTI that can run on mobile as well as consoles and PC with similar efficiency?

    If Epic thought SVOTI was good enough to use in their engine, they would have implemented it.

    I'm not sure there is a huge demand for that feature in UE4 as you think. Most developers that make open world games where global illumination can be put to good use, use their own in house engines.

    And if they absolutely need to have real time global illumination in UE4, they can use Enlighten or something. That's what Ninja Theory did with Hellblade.

    See, it's ignorant fanboyish comments like this why no one takes you seriously. It took me less than a minute to find that VXGI and SVOTI are basically the same thing, just different quality. They are both voxel based forms of global illumination, but NVidia calls their version VXGI whereas Crytek calls theirs SVOTI. VXGI was meant to be PC specific and is a higher quality of simulation than SVOTI, which can run on consoles and PC. The Maxwell series of GPUs and better actually have hardware acceleration for VXGI in fact.
     
  20. S.T.A.R.A.C.

    S.T.A.R.A.C. Master Guru

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    Where did i wrote this? Find me please that text!

    The problem here is that you through your ignorance and lack of knowledge, you invent some nonsense in your head, and then you say how that's what i'm talking about.
    Btw, if you want to experience what i'm talking about, download and try Cryengine 5. You can't talk about something you newer experienced. And this is what you do.

    This is for quadruple facepalm!

    Epic was working on their SVOGI solution way back then in 2012-2013, but they dropped it because of the reasons i explained before. But of course you don't know this.
    Enlighten is not real time global illumination. It is precomputed solution, half baked, and it is not free solution. You need to pay for it, a lot. Also it has performance problems.

    VXGI and SVOTI are voxel based, but they are not the same. They don't have the same options, SVOTI performs way better and it works on consoles too. VXGI was available for 5 years now, and yet nobody ever used it in any game.
    Only people like you who newer worked with any engine can say how SVOTI is not important. And i still don't understand why you talk about this? Unbelievable!

    I'm not a fanboy. If someone would suggested me to work with UE4 on a particular game, i would accept it. It all depends on what do you work, with who, etc.
    Again, i have worked with all 3 engines, i know what they can do. You don't even know what an engine is. And you call me ignorant?
     

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