Game of Thrones

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Mkilbride, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. Darkest

    Darkest Ancient Guru

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    So we're not allowed to critique things anymore?

    A good person puts his head in the sand and ignores reality?

    I'm sorry if you mean more than what I've summed it down to, but you seem to be claiming that we're not allowed to share our opinions or be upset about a thing.

    I'd hoped the average Guru member was better than that.
     
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  2. TaskMaster

    TaskMaster Maha Guru

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    See, people are far, far too oversensitive in this thread. No, I didn't mean for it to come across as that. Certainly people are allowed to critique anything they like just as I am. I was simply pointing out that some critiques are a bit petty and some a justified (like I said in my original post).

    Each to their own, simple.
     
  3. boodikon

    boodikon Ancient Guru

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    I watched series 1 too 5 then the show faded for me, did game of thrones go the same way as "lost"
     
  4. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Almost.
     

  5. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    A serious analyzes on why the show went down in quality:


    Since there was no official behind the scenes for ep6:


    Also, since Bran saw the vision of the dragon over King's Landing, he must have known what will happen but he did not prevent it.
     
  6. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    This would have been a lot better.
     
  7. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I've only watched part one so far, but i liked that even less than the real episode 5. Sounds like it would be a cheese fest in reality.

    There were a few nice ideas though, but while i thought it was predictable, Daenerys going crazy and killing everyone was my highlight of what i thought was a poor season.

    I agree the show peaked years ago, was better when it was more about power struggles and less about dragons, white walkers and the fantasy stuff.
     
  8. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    Wow, you are probably the first I have read who liked Dany going nuts for no reason at all.
     
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  9. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Liked would be a strong word, but with so much of the season being underwhelming it stood out.

    I also think no reason isn't accurate when that sort of thing runs in the family, and it's was something she had previously considered doing anyway, but was talked out of it.

    It's not uncommon for the thing that triggers a crazy person to be something small or insignificant, plus she had realised that she was never going to be loved so the only option she had was to be feared.

    Watching Hello Future Me's rewrite for Episode 3, and so far much prefer the suggestions he had for that than his ideas for 5 and 6.
    Also, on a positive note i thought Ramin was as good as ever.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  10. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Although the way in which it happened was done too quickly and could have been done with fleshing out their seems to be quite a few folk who keep saying it made no sense and she went mad for no reason at all. I am not sure what exactly they were looking for maybe the odd episode with her laughing at herself while licking spoons? Anyway you listed just a few of the reasons, adding in things like her closest confidants and advisors were plotting against her, she had spent most of her life convinced she was the rightful air to the throne only to find that she suddenly wasn't and that the person who was was actually loved by the people while the people had no feeling towards her at all and he didn't even want to be ruler.

    Loads of reason, loads of show long arc showing she was less than stable.... people still saying their was no reason and it made no sense why she went mad. It was done too quickly and needed another season to make it all fit better which is a long way from 'no reason and it made no sense.'

    Then again I've watched the comments about GOT over the shows arc and it's very weird. In the early days you would have forums full of folk complaining about it's slow pace how it took half a season to move a person or army from one location to another and that very little story got development until that person or army reached where ever they were going. Switch that to the last few seasons and now you have folk complaining about people teleporting around and how armies moved from one location to another 'too quickly'.
     

  11. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    Except we've been told that Dany is a) one of the strongest b) not like her father.
    Besides, you know the writing sucks when she is supposedly cannot take being loved when she has worked for that before, but in this case it should come automatically after Winterfell, in which she saved everyone's asses because the north had close to no soldiers not to forget dragons at all. Without her it is likely that the entire Westeros would have fallen to the Night King.
    The script is so bad for s8 that I expected Dany to speak binary in the last episode.
    Of course Varys has been missing in action for a few seasons too, not the brightest of them all exactly, anymore, he worked secretly to get Viserys in power, who we knew was actually a cruel sadistic being and now he somehow senses that Dany is in fact worse? Bah.

    Also, if you know the story about the mad king, it took him very long to lose his marbles, but even when someone does you don't really take vengeance on people who had nothing to do with it nor do you break what you want to be your new home.

    It's the same with Bran really, he hated being little lord of Winterfell, didn't want it as an adult, said he is not even Bran anymore and cannot take it as well as as saying that he spends most of the time in the friggin past.
    Very few at the meeting know his story, why would they want him? How on earth would so many houses want the Starks to control everything?
    And we have Bronn as the master of coin, who doesn't quite get what a loan is. How about master of war? Their meeting looked so amateurish..

    Or Arya, who had to turn retarded too. "I know a killer when I see one". Says the killer herself after Dany goes genocide mode, yeah Arya, we noticed she killed a bunch of people. Well OK, so now that we know that Arya still can faceswap why was she OK with Jon and others going to a war that didn't need to happen? She took out house Frey with ease and could easily with some faceswaps go and kill Cersei and Euron, that this did not occur is so bloody stupid that I feel like they are almost trolling us, how dumb can they make the story and people still love it?
    A possible conflict could have been written here instead, where Jaime notices about this plot, this makes him realize that he still loves her and although he might not love her like before at least he doesn't want her to die, so he might try to kill another Stark once again...namely Arya.
    I can take that he wanted to go back to Cersei, but I can't buy into the idea that he somehow didn't care about the people anymore as the story lays out quite well that he takes being hated for being the kingslayer he at least knows that he did save the entire King's Landing at one point. Breaking that oath was the absolute right thing to do, and it's also the right thing to do to stand on the side of living against the army of the dead. But heck, just in a few idiotic lines the story gets rid of that too, when we clearly know he does care about these things.

    Going back to Arya once more, I'm also to believe that she did not go over to the dark side because she had a little short chat with the Hound (who stupidly went in to kill his brother despite knowing chances are high that he would die too) about not becoming what he is, about vengeance and hate. This is why we have that white horse taking her out of what remains the of King's Landing. Heck, she killed Frey's two sons, and fed them to him. This goes a bit beyond what Dany has ever done in the show (and in the book she is risking her own life to help plague victims "at this points", which makes her one of the most altruistic persons in the book as well and the show. Dany is basically a cowboy that has to defend herself against bad guys who want her dead even before she has done anything, so she needs to defend herself. Noting that she has the talent for this she gets rid of other bad guys too, in order to help others. Now what GOT brings into this Cowboy-world is that innocents die, and in this show they matter more than most, but they have never been her target before and now suddenly are.

    I've looked into what psychologists have said about the final s8, and I have not found one that says it is plausible for someone to go from being altruistic to genocidal in such a short notice, especially when she has nothing to gain by doing so. If you need to keep people in check a few dragon roars every then and now certainly would be a reminder, but even more realistically Dany only has to do better than Cersei and that can't be hard because the show constantly tells us that she does not care about the people really at all, whereas Dany risks her own life in order to for instance free slaves and reform the Dothraki who are anything but kind to their victims. Heck, these nomads even kill each other at weddings.

    Yeah so, I don't buy it for a second. And felt nothing when Dany died, because "that's not her".
     
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  12. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    In other words, you got no argument. Heck, anyone who has even lifted a psychology book would know that her story made no sense, same with Arya's. Yes, let Jon go and possibly kill himself for no good reason. This is derp level 9000.
    The show was rushed so that they could go and make SW, with which they will make the big money. And stupid stories is to be expected because that truly is made for the mindless mass market.

    It's other things too. Jon went from s7 to with all due respect I don't know you / I am the king in the north to a man with no compass whatsoever. She's my queen, she did it because it was necessary, yet he is shocked as hell to see what goes on. Zero consistency.

    And because the show went bloody retarded it made sure to say many times over for people to go to the crypt, but somehow Jon and the others fail to realize that there are graves in a bloody crypt, nobody is armed in case they dead rise again, nobody is prepared which also makes Tyrion quite bloody stupid.

    All of this is done in order to advance the story forward, just about everyone loses 20 IQ points or more.

    Sam surviving Winterfell? C'mon. Jorah's armor suddenly not working when it has done so previously? Almost zero consistency.

    And it's not just those who watch the show that have noticed this, it is also actors themselves:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...ene-conleth-hill-character-plot-a8910981.html

     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  13. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I agree they intentionally made smart characters stupid to create more "drama" and we all agree the show was rushed, but i still saw Dany going crazy way before it happened so it wasn't a great surprise to me.
    I found her an incredibly unlikeable character as well.

    Saying that, the ending I wanted consisted of Cersei killing everyone. Not that I liked her, but sometimes bad people win.
     
  14. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    If she was not a Targaryan would anyone have known? If the flip of the coin discussion was not part of I'm fairly sure nobody would believe it.
    ___

     
  15. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Sensible choice mate
     

  16. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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  17. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    [​IMG]
    "Sensible" season sillyness.

     
  18. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    No point in overthinking it. They did same thing to GoT which I hated on STD. They put established characters out of their characters. In STD, they did it multiple times in one season.
    Here they got to break in in last one as much as they could. That's what happens when you put regressive people in charge of anything.
     
  19. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    It's not really overthinking it, I won't make hour long videos or anything but plenty of others do. At this point I'm only waiting for mauler's final videos on the episodes and then I'm pretty much done with it.
    Just clear that they rushed through the end of the story to get to make their SW movies, which I'm not hopeful for now either. They could have after s7 given the job over to someone else who might have developed things a bit further..
    And I'm not really that heartbroken or anything, the Simpsons sort of already did this, they ignored who the characters were and just put them in "funny" situations, so none of this is really new, besides we might still might get the last books, and even they are not perfect...but I'll skip giving examples. GoT better things to do.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This is sort of how I would have done things, not all of it though:

    This war did not even have to occur, Arya could have gone and killed Cersei as well as Euron. Coup d'etat done.
    If this plan then somehow leaked to Jamie, he could go back to his old ways, he might not love Cersei as much as before but it's not unreasonable to think that he doesn't want her to actually die, so he might even want to kill another Stark and this time Arya. If he succeeds then the war needs happen, the news reaches Cersei that Jamie has been killed, so she is at her most backed into a corner as the tigress (the lion still has claws), prepared like mad, even with wildfire.

    From here on the battle can be all the way in, this is now clear that you are in it to survive or not, take the throne or not, it's plausible that if Dany has her two dragons still alive and one is killed at King's Landing as you point out that she too goes all and this in the end sets off the wildfire which the people will blame Dany for. I would have much rather she goes insane by not getting the throne, as some people die because they want love and some receive too much of it. So, this can lead to Cersei and Dany ultimately destroying each other, because they both wanted the damn power so much none of them ended up getting it. Kind of like two kids fighting over the same toy and ending up breaking it which makes it useless for both.

    Bittersweet ending. King's Landing is in complete ruins, why does it even matter who sits at the throne at this point?

    When Dany died like this, I didn't care one bit, because "that's not her".
    __
    When it comes to the hound, well, that was kind of stupid fan service. "I've already suffered because of that strawberry, I'm not dying because of him too". At least wait it out if the entire structure is collapsing, perhaps he somehow doesn't die fully but the Hound finds him and ends up mercy killing him instead, this kinds of reflects back on when Arya left the hound to die.
    This could mean that his old ways are gone, he can perhaps start to moving on...
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
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  20. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Finally finished watching the final season. Great battle scenes. Really great. The rest however, not that great. It feels rushed and with no thought given to plausibility. The things that happen are OK, but there's no setup for them to happen. They just happen. The dragon getting shot down out of the blue for example. That's fine. It needed to get shot down, the dragon lady was way too OP. But how the heck did it get to that? Nobody saw the ships? What?

    And her switch from benevolent but delusional dictator to psychopathic war criminal took like 10 minutes. There was no actual character development that shows the transformation.

    It feels like there was more scenes, explaining things and setting them up properly, but they were all cut. Season 8 really needed a full 10 episodes, not 6. What the f.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
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