Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Palerider, Oct 20, 2011.
Iam with you on this one Scary. In order to get public support for these types of campaigns the targets must first be vilified. Then comes the invasion.
well apparently the us has a habbit of doing thigs ass backwards.
Libya wasn't a western fed operation. I mean popular protests bolstered by multilateral western intervention paints a more kosovo like intervention, this time with the added bonus of an entire country. If this was masterminded by the western imperialist system you think it would have take so long? The USA was clearly not sold on the issue and was aiding it from the rear so what gives the thought that this was somehow masterminded by "The west".
I see it more of an alignments of interests between; the Libyan people who actually did not like Gaddafi, sarkozy (the french president) who needed to score some foreign policy points, Britain who are still pissed about the locker-bee bombing of the 80s and the USA which at the end just realised that the cost of the operation was super cheap and carried very little negatives.
What you say about Iran and North Korea makes sense. It would be stupid of the United states to even dream of pulling off an Iraq style thing with a nuclear power. Further I think the Americans know this that's why it never goes beyond economic sanctions.
he was hiding here
:wanker: :wanker: :wanker: Nice timming lol
No, but it gives a hint of why there were so few rebels in the first place until NATO put mercs there
NATO it is the west, and NATO just doesnt touch anything unless the US gives the ok, afterll all, the US keep them armed and trained.
Funny how they all end up in a hole... remembers Saddam's capture
According to leaked news he was captured alive, begged for his life, then was killed.
No matter what he has done, the only correct way would've been a court. Maybe a drumroll court, but still a court.
International laws DO touch the subject of unarmed prisoners.
of course they do, but nothing will come of it.
Yeah it doesn't sit well with me, prime ministers and presidents praising the barbaric murder of a man, no matter what he's done I thought the whole point is were better than that we are more humane and have courts and laws.
Then again they are the same people in charge who cause wars all over the world for their own agenders, I guess their no better in the end.
Um the operation was given UN approval, and last time I checked Russia and China were not in the West.
I think we can all agree on one thing, and that is that he was a horrific man who allowed a lot of atrocities to be committed on the people he was supposed to be looking after.
One only has to read about the way he treated his "Amazon Guard" and the images of the babysitter his son's wife poured boiling water over
I may not agree with how it was done, but the world is a better place without him - of that i have no doubt.
Agreed. This man was pure evil.
Wow. Such ignorance. One of my best friend's cousins went to college with some guy from Libya. They became very good friends and stayed in contact after graduating. The Libyan went to Libya, and they kept up the contact weekly. Around the time of Gaddafi's slaughter of his people, my friend's cousin stopped hearing news from his Libyan friend, and feared the worst.
About a month later, his friend finally responded to him - he had joined the rebels, as had many college graduates. Gaddafi was poisoning the drinking water in several cities to maximize the killing of civilians. His town was one of those.
Gaddafi's death is welcome for increased sanity and humanity in this world. Using snipers, fighter jets (seriously, WTF?), tanks, troops, and poison to kill your people is...solidly evil.
I vote for al-Assad to be next. He's just as bad as Gaddafi. Using battleships/destroyers to ****ing attack cities...disgusting.
Not to forget that Gadhafi called the rebels "rats", while he became the rat in a hole himself.
So Gaddafi's dead. So what? It was only a matter of time after NATO decided to overthrow him protect civilians.
So it was an extra-judicial killing. So, much like every bomb NATO dropped on or near government forces, or every shell the NTC forces fired into the city of Sirte, or the fate of many Gaddafi supporters captured by NTC troops. Did we expect any different? As much as a show trial followed by official execution mght have suited some, I have no doubt many others, including in this country, are rather relieved Gaddafi didn't get a platform to reveal some of the murkier dealings of our "democratic" government.
What next then? In the immediate future it will be hard to find anyone who actually supported Gaddafi. They will all miraculously be transformed into fervent opponents who loved the NTC all along. Those unfortunate enough to be identified as supporters or who have been captured will be routinely tortured and killed, which will not make headlines. In a year they will hold elections, which NATO will declare fair as long as they're hapy with the outcome. The vote will go along tribal lines but there is unlikely to be much agreement as the feuding tribes against Gaddafi never had anything in common except their shared foe. Expect a rise of Islamism, something Gaddafi had supressed in the past, as people seek leaders who promise them peace, not continued feuding.
I will shed no tears for Gaddafi, but I will not hail this as a new dawn for Libya or the region either. Like previous "liberations" in Afghanistan and Iraq, we have created a power vacuum and will have little control over the unfolding events, and these are by no means sure to be good for us or good for the citizens of those countries. Once again the concepts of "right" and "wrong" take a back seat to our overweaning political ambitions to dominate the oil producing countries, and noble claims of democracy ring hollow in the face of our continued support of despots in countries like Saudi and Bahrain. So they kill their peole, so what, they buy our weapons to do it with, and they sell us their oil. Gaddafi was a national hero when he led the revolution against the corrupt King Idris. He practised a form of Socialism and the Libyan people enjoyed a fairly enlightened regime with high employment and state education. But it was flawed. Gaddafi favoured his tribal allies, dealt harshly with opponents and in time resentmant grew that the riches weren't being shared out enough. Gaddafi's dream, like Saddam, of a North African alliance, led him to oppose the west who didn't want their hegemony interrupted by his ambitions, and that eventually sowed the seeds of his defeat. Despite making peace in recent years there were still plenty who wanted him gone and saw him as someone who would not submit to western dominance. The small rebellion in the western states of Libya was all the excuse needed and the rest is history.
Let's not kid ourselves this is a Libyan revolution or that the cause of democracy has been advanced. The kilings and torture will go on, the oppression of sectors of the population will change only in who is oppressed. Beter hope the new government is a pliable puppet of ours then, rather than another bunch of fire and brimstone Islamists.
This will happen soon!
well you can only sanction but so much. then the inevitible will occur. but tbh, i seriously doubt iran has first strike capability. even if they were to get something off, im pretty sure that country would be turned into a crater after.
Yeah, like previous "operations" of the US. The UN is a joke, besides, when the UN oposes something of that scale, no one mentions it, but when the UN approbes, then all wear their "UN aprobed" standart. Thats why all the reports and investigations of massacres n stuff of the UN get unnoticed (like the dispropotionally high deaths of palestine ppl compared against israeli casualties), the US and NATO by extension gives a sht or not about the UN when it suits them.
BTW, part of russia is in "the west" And their deals with Lybia are in the past (forgiving debts and selling weapons to them) China could not give any fck about Gaddafi, its not China's "turf", not approbing that would mean bad looks at them for no good reason.
The sad thing is, they wont help Syria...why?? cuz they gotz no oil!!