G-Sync + In-game V-Sync OR Control Panel V-sync?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by BlindBison, Oct 14, 2020.

  1. Lurk

    Lurk Member Guru

    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    20
    GPU:
    Gigabyte GTX 1080
    Stumbled into this thread as I jumped onto the ‘G-Sync compatible’ bandwagon just recently. I can easily say that so far most of the games I play behave SIGNIFICANTLY better with V-Sync on in-game and left to app preference in NVCP. Don’t ask me why.

    I even refunded Metro Exodus before discovering this, as it was running like crap. Wish I had known better.

    Gonna try HAGS off and see if I can get even better results, but so far I’m sorry to say that Blurbusters’ suggested G-Sync settings have been a disaster for me performance-wise.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  2. jorimt

    jorimt Active Member

    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    44
    GPU:
    EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3
    Leaving this here:

    v-sync-recommendations.jpg

    First off, regardless of my recommendation, it's typically safe to use either the NVCP or in-game V-SYNC option with G-SYNC.

    However, I can't account for each and every possibility in a single recommendation, and I only have ever recommended NVCP V-SYNC over in-game V-SYNC, because it's virtually guaranteed to engage in the given game 100% of the time (while admittedly rare, the same can't always be said for the in-game option, which may or may not also be tied to something else).

    The V-SYNC option itself is only responsible for one thing with G-SYNC enabled; it forces adherence to the scanout at all times, which prevents all possible tearing within the refresh rate/G-SYNC range.

    Any other V-SYNC behaviors are not directly G-SYNC-related, and are down to the specific game.

    It also doesn't help that the market is now flooded with software-level G-SYNC Compatible displays, which seem to have more unexpected behavioral variance (and potential bugs) when compared directly to hardware G-SYNC in general (at least where anecdotal user-level reports can be found).

    That said, I do own a G-SYNC Compatible display (LG CX), and where fundamental G-SYNC operation is concerned (panel-type differences excluded), it behaves identically to my native G-SYNC display when the recommended settings are used.

    Finally, it's somewhat obnoxiously common to see many issues being misattributed to G-SYNC, which can, at its very best, merely reflect (tear-free) what the system is outputting (any and all remaining performance-related issues and/or game-specific quirks included).
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
    Solfaur, BlindBison and Sylencer like this.
  3. Lurk

    Lurk Member Guru

    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    20
    GPU:
    Gigabyte GTX 1080
    Thank you very much indeed for clarifying and pointing out stuff that I’ve surely missed! This leaves me with more experimenting options while remaining relatively sure that G-Sync is somehow still doing it’s job!

    Cheers! ;)
     
    BlindBison likes this.
  4. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    191
    GPU:
    RTX 2080 Super
    For me to get Gsync working in full screen mode I had to disable full screen optimizations on the exe like in Dark Souls 3 which probably uses the same engine.

    I’ve never had another game work like that.

    Yeah, in this case what I found was that yes, I had to force control panel Vsync or the “frame time compensation” module wouldn’t kick in right and tearing would occur in the lower part of the screen sometimes.

    Seems to work great now though with the mod.
     

  5. SalamatiQus

    SalamatiQus Active Member

    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    60
    GPU:
    RTX 3080 Vision OC
    Yes, forgot to mention but on my system I have FSO disabled "globally" with MPO disabled.
     
    BlindBison likes this.
  6. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    191
    GPU:
    RTX 2080 Super
    Thanks for the explanation that’s helpful to know!

    So it’s “usually” not a big deal whether you use in-game VSync or control panel vsync ON, but in some cases one or the other can result in the better experience so it’ll vary somewhat if I’m understanding correctly. Thanks!

    So far on my system at least I’ve found a case for each — Metro Exodus Enhanced had microstutters until I switched from GSync + control panel vsync to Gsync + In game vsync for example. Meanwhile in Sekiro the gsync “frametime compensation module” thing wasn’t working right with the in game Vsync (tearing was still happening sometimes in the lower half of the display), but gsync + control panel Vsync resolved it without issue.

    I think what I’ll probably do personally going forward is GSync ON + Control Panel Vsync set to “Let the 3D app decide” + Ingame Vsync ON then if I run into issues I’ll force the control panel Vsync ON like in Sekiro + turn the in game Vsync OFF in such cases. If I end up noticing a larger amount of games misbehaving that way though I’ll go back to the control panel Vsync method for the default. Thanks again, if there’s anything apparent I got wrong just let me know.

    EDIT:

    If a game has options for different Vsync types, you always want standard double buffering in conjunction with Gsync right? Iirc I’d read on blur busters somewhere that Gsync was natively double buffered or some such, but I might be misremembering. Or, does the Vsync type not even matter? Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  7. jorimt

    jorimt Active Member

    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    44
    GPU:
    EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3
    The Dark Souls/Sekiro engine is one of the only instances I've personally experienced where if you don't disable FSO for the exe, it locks itself to a physical refresh rate of 60Hz, regardless of G-SYNC settings.

    These game/engine-specific quirks can happen, and there's no way to anticipate them all, but I have covered this particular instance multiple times in the comments section of my article.

    Yes.

    G-SYNC functions natively on a double buffer, so there's no known technical advantage to pairing it with triple buffer V-SYNC, which, at worst, could be detrimental (this point was previously noted in a paragraph pictured in the image I linked in my last post as well).
     
    Blanky, Nastya and BlindBison like this.
  8. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    191
    GPU:
    RTX 2080 Super
    Thanks, you’re the man
     
  9. squalles

    squalles Master Guru

    Messages:
    861
    Likes Received:
    51
    GPU:
    Galax GTX 1080 EXOC
    these setting with freesync and vsync together on always give me a lot more inputlag, blurbusters shows the same, but says to use with these configuration, i´m never understand that, i´m always used vsync off and fps limit in 141fps, without tearing, no lag, work great here

    [​IMG]
     
  10. janos666

    janos666 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    172
    GPU:
    MSI RTX3080 10Gb
    Look harder, check the bottom of the screen while running parallel to textured walls or (better yet) horizontally articulated fences. You will probably see a small tearing (might not constantly but it's there for long enough). This can also mess with the HUD elements (depending on their position and design).
    ~2m average is not a big price to pay for getting rid of this small tearing. Well, unless you are a competitive "pro" gamer.
     
    BlindBison likes this.

  11. Blanky

    Blanky Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    8
    GPU:
    RTX 2070 SUPERXTrio
    These days I'm playing Sekiro again with a freesync screen, and this game is the only game I have to play in borderless screen with the mod that unlocks fps, if I don't do that the game runs at 60hz with vsync and lag and micro stuttering that makes it unplayable.
    In nvidia control panel to the .exe of the game I have to leave it in that the 3D application decides the use of vsync.

    I play 99% of my games in fullscreen but this is an exception, my screen is 75hz, I limit it to 73 with RTSS and the fluidity is incredible, I can do parrys perfectly. I always heard a thing called iframes from software games and it's because I think the physics are tied to the 60fps of the game engine and that removing vsync breaks it, well for me breaking vsync is night and day.

    PS: what I don't understand is why using g-sync compatible (freesync) in full screen gives me screen tearing, I always heard that gsync and freesync avoid screen tearing, well for me it doesn't happen like that, if I don't use vsync my screen tears and I have never understood why.(sorry my bad english).
     
  12. tty8k

    tty8k Master Guru

    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    155
    GPU:
    3070
    Vsync works in tandem with gsync even if framerate is lower than vsync/monito max, so you should have it ON if you want less or no tearing.
    There are cases if you disable vsync and leave gsync to work alone there is tearing towards the screen borders.
    It adds a bit of input lag but if you cap your fps a few frames below your monitor rate is not that noticeable.
     
  13. janos666

    janos666 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    172
    GPU:
    MSI RTX3080 10Gb
    G-Sync matches your refresh rate to your framerate. Now try setting a 60 fps limit at 60Hz without V-Sync. You will see tearing, right...? G-Sync at least moves that tear line to the bottom of the screen. With additional V-Sync, the line is eliminated completely. But without the regular V-Sync lag when you use a limiter. The timing adjustment of G-Sync + V-Sync is only as high as your small area below the tearline with no V-Sync but G-Sync only.
     
  14. Blanky

    Blanky Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    8
    GPU:
    RTX 2070 SUPERXTrio
    What you mention I always have it in mind, I always use vsync+G-sync but in Sekiro if I use Vsync in full screen the game is unplayable, I have micro stuttering even to move the camera, everything is very slow any action I notice a big input lag, if I disable Vsync I have screen tearing and same stuttering, I don't know how to explain it well is to move the camera and moves it with many stops.

    My solution? Borderless screen with the mod, I limit to 73 fps to be in range of g-sync always and the fluidity is super incredible, everything is instantaneous without stuttering, no screen tearing, no input lag, the change is brutal, It only happens to me with this game
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
  15. squalles

    squalles Master Guru

    Messages:
    861
    Likes Received:
    51
    GPU:
    Galax GTX 1080 EXOC
    yeah, i know the effect, i see him when use 142, 143 or 144 fps limit, but with 141 or below don´t happens here, and yes i´m feel difference on input lag mainly on cs go and racing simulators, responsiveness are essential to recover your car under control in some situations
     

  16. janos666

    janos666 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    172
    GPU:
    MSI RTX3080 10Gb
    Well, I see tering with G-Sync Compatible HDMI 2.1 VRR (LG C9 TV) with pretty much anything above something like 70 fps (for 120Hz). And even with low caps, the tearing might occasionally occur without V-Sync. But I only tested this sometimes last year in HalfLife 2 (because I could also launch that game on my AMD based notebook to check If FreeSync behaves that same - and it does).
     
  17. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,590
    Likes Received:
    1,770
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 980 Ti FTW
    Yeah well, that's what g-sync is designed to do: tell the monitor when to start the scanout and steer the tearline below the bottom of the screen. The tearline "steering" can be disabled. They just didn't name that function "tearline steering", they named it 'vsync ON".

    At the end of the day, when you use VRR, what you want is to hide the tearline without having to use vsync. If hiding the tearline means having to delay some of the frames by 1 or 2ms, then that's that. That's what you want. It's the whole point. Delay only as needed and not a single millisecond more. Juuuust exactly right as to hide the tear, instead of paying the full delay of normal vsync to do it.
     
    jorimt and BlindBison like this.
  18. ThermaL1102

    ThermaL1102 Member

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    11
    GPU:
    KFA2 1070 OC
    the point of g-sync was to get rid of v-sync ,
    so you had the advantage of less input-lag ...
    haven't used any v-sync since i got a g-sync monitor , the one i've got now has freesync even , works like a charm
    haven't seen tearing with any of the drivers since 144hz frequency monitors came out with g-sync
     
  19. janos666

    janos666 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    172
    GPU:
    MSI RTX3080 10Gb
    You should understand that V-Sync ON with G-Sync ON is not the same as V-Sync On with G-Sync OFF as long as you are below the refresh rate.
    Things were suggested by nVidia and measured by users. Why do you know better than these two combinesűd if you are neither an nV dev, nor a user who did precise testing (including high framerate camera tests)?
     
    BlindBison likes this.
  20. tty8k

    tty8k Master Guru

    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    155
    GPU:
    3070
    It doesn't work as simple as that.
    You see, Vsync if used with gsync works differently up to the limit framerate.

    What you don't want is to reach that max framerate so full vsync kicks in.

    Basically what @janos666 said .
     
    BlindBison likes this.

Share This Page