G-Sync + In-game V-Sync OR Control Panel V-sync?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by BlindBison, Oct 14, 2020.

  1. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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    I saw in BattleNonSense’s recent video that he recommended capping 4 frames beneath monitor refresh (as opposed to BlurBusters/Jorimt’s article recommending capping 3 below) and BattleNonSense also recommend enabling V-Sync in game (rather than in the control panel).

    I can’t remember where, but I had thought I read somewhere that enabling Vsync in the control panel with Vsync was preferred to in game but now I’m not sure.

    Is G-Sync + In game Vsync ON preferred over G-Sync + Control Panel Vsync ON? If so, why (or why not?)

    Thanks!
     
  2. artina90

    artina90 Member Guru

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    Probably the reason why he recommended using in-game Vsync is because, according to him, some game engines have optimizations in place to lower input latency that are triggered only when in-game Vsync is active.
    The Vsync ON option in the NVCP doesn't trigger said optimizations.
    I remember him mentioning this in one of his older videos, I can't recall which one though.

    This is somewhat confirmed by blurbusters as well, and they also claim that Gsync is natively double buffered:
    "While NVCP V-SYNC has no input lag reduction over in-game V-SYNC, and when used with G-SYNC + FPS limit, it will never engage, some in-game V-SYNC solutions may introduce their own frame buffer or frame pacing behaviors, enable triple buffer V-SYNC automatically (not optimal for the native double buffer of G-SYNC), or simply not function at all, and, thus, NVCP V-SYNC is the safest bet."

    Personally I keep the NVCP Vsync set to ON and I attempt to use in-game Vsync in problematic titles when I notice microstutters or any other bad behaviors related to Vsync and framepacing.
    The NVCP Vsync ON works well for most titles as far as my perception goes (I don't have the equipment to test latency).

    Most Unity games out there will stutter from time to time no matter what, I have no idea what's wrong with this engine.
    Across 2 different PCs and 2 different monitors, a GTX 970, 1080 and 2080Ti, I have always had this problem with Unity, lower budget indie titles seem to be the most affected ones.
    Probably the engine leaves too much in the hands of the developers and the default configuration is a stuttery mess.
    This video is old, no idea if this still applies, but if this is the default behavior of the engine there is no way we are going to get smooth indie Unity games any time soon:

     
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  3. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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  4. squalles

    squalles Master Guru

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    Honestly vsync always give me higher input lag, im using gsync with frame limit to 3 fps below my refresh rate and vsync off, and looks very better here
     

  5. jorj02

    jorj02 Member

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    ULLM ON CPL Vsync on Gsync on and 0x00200000 PS_FRAMERATE_LIMITER_DISALLOWED to avoid the auto cap from ULLM best combo in latency + smoothness :) enjoy dont forgot to cap ur frames in game or RTSS For consistent cap

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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    @mbk1969 For that link you provided, it's not really clear to me what the recommendation is. So, towards the bottom this block is present:

    > Currently, when G-SYNC is enabled, the control panel’s “Vertical sync” entry is automatically engaged to “Use the 3D application setting,” which defers V-SYNC fallback behavior and frametime compensation control to the in-game V-SYNC option. This can be manually overridden by changing the “Vertical sync” entry in the control panel to “Off,” “On,” or “Fast.”

    But this doesn't really read like a recommendation one way or the other to me and perhaps its notable that Nvidia defaults the behavior to the in-game V-Sync option? Of course there is some explanation of what V-Sync ON with G-Sync does, but I'm still somewhat confused on the rationale between in-game or control panel.

    I did see on the second page of that link they provide a link to their recommended optimal G-Sync setup where they outright state to use the control panel v-sync ON w/ g-sync while disabling in-game, but I don't really understand why -- does in-game v-sync just not always play nice with G-Sync then? Is BattleNonSense just wrong then in his recommendation to use in-game V-Sync with G-Sync? Thanks,
     
  7. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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    @jorj02 I didn't even know it was possible to disable the auto-fps cap when using ULLM -- that's great to know
     
  8. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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    @AsiJu Interesting find for Surge 2 -- since I get some pretty noticeable microstuttering even with G-Sync below my monitors max refresh rate in some titles, I'm wondering if perhaps that issue applies to some other games where they might require use of their in-game v-sync option or perhaps the control panel v-sync option can cause some issues here and there for certain games (just speculating). Well, it's something I can experiment with then I suppose.

    So far going off of this thread, if I'm understanding right, the default recommended setup is: G-Sync ON + Control Panel V-Sync ON (globally) + FPS cap ~3 beneath monitor refresh. Then perhaps if you get specific issues for certain games experiment on a per game basis.

    Still, I am a bit sad that I don't fully understand the "why" behind all of this even after reading over that blurbusters article linked by mbk -- so, it seems some games internal v-sync "can" cause issues with g-sync ON, but perhaps some other games yet "can" have issues with the control panel v-sync ON too so who knows. In particular I am just rather confused why BattleNonSense would make a recommendation to use the internal V-Sync -- I know that in his video he states that in-game V-Sync can trigger game specific optimizations, but that's rather vague and may not even apply in conjunction with G-Sync I would think.
     
  9. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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    @artina90 Thanks for your comment, that's helpful! Yeah, Unity games are often just a total mess oftentimes -- I really dislike that they usually don't even have a true fullscreen exclusive mode.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  10. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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  11. S3r1ous

    S3r1ous Member Guru

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    probably better to instead raise the settings ingame, add various other graphical effects until you stay in 110-140 range instead
    that way you dont need to deal with buggy fps limiters
     
  12. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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    @mbk1969 I did locate that page, yes though thanks for linking it directly. From what I gather BattleNonSense was saying to use in game Vsync since it can sometimes have game specific optimizations that are good while BlurBusters was saying to use control panel Vsync since then you know it’ll play nice with Gsync and won’t needlessly try to triple buffer or alter prerendering unnecessarily if I’m understanding correctly.

    So, blurbusters refers to control panel Vsync as the most safe bet.
     
  13. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    @BlindBison

    Flexible approach is per-game-basis - try what BlurBusters say and in case of issues try other things.

    PS But I use what BlureBasters recommended in global profile (NVIDIA), and yet to see a game with glitches.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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  14. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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  15. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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    @AsiJu I don't recall which exact video, but it was one of his most recent iirc -- actually I think it was one of his recent Nvidia Reflex videos where he went over the G-Sync setup and recommended using in-game V-Sync + G-Sync due to possible optimizations that the games themselves can have or some such. Still, I'm more inclined to believe BlurBusters/jorimt given their more thorough explanation so I suppose that closes it more or less. If I run into issues on an individual game basis I can try flipping the flags around (in game/control panel) and see what happens -- in most cases it may not even matter at all though perhaps.
     

  16. BlackNova92

    BlackNova92 Member Guru

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    that is the point of the minus 3 frames though?
    to get rid of the lag and tearing, so having minus 3 without vsync is kind of a waste?
     
  17. squalles

    squalles Master Guru

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    no, have games like cs go an pes 2020 i have tearing even with freesync enable if i don´t cap to 3 frames below
     
  18. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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    @squalles Right, if you go above your refresh with vsync OFF and gsync ON then you will get tearing as you're outside the gsync window. The point of capping ~3 frames beneath gsync monitor refresh is that then you stay in the gsync window without incurring a vsync level input lag penalty. G-Sync ON + V-Sync ON (control panel going off this thread/blurbusters) with an fps cap should provide the best experience overall since then you don't get tearing within the g-sync window, but you also don't incur v-sync level input delay (if you were to reach your monitors refresh rate for example). V-Sync ON does something different with G-Sync unless you reach monitor refresh -- it's covered in mbk's links above.
     
  19. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    @BlindBison

    I doubt that game code has better optimisations because:
    - game code does not know on what hardware and software it will be executed (it knows only API - DX, VK, OGL),
    - DirectX/Vulkan/OpenGL code is closer to the actual hardware but still depends on videocard drivers,
    - videocard drivers are the closest thing to actual hardware, and their code knows exactly the execution environment (HW and SW).
     
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  20. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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    @mbk1969 Thanks! Yeah, going over the blurbuster's explanations, it seems to me that BattleNonSense is probably incorrect on this one then and that the control panel v-sync is preferred at least in general. EDIT: For anyone wondering, I'm pretty sure it's in this video: and then he had another G-Sync video where he said the same thing to my recollection.
     

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