G.SKILL Releases New DDR4 Specifications for Intel Coffee Lake Platform

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Oct 6, 2017.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. fuzion3153

    fuzion3153 Member

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    Hmm.. I'm assuming that they KNOW about the availibility of coffee lake at this point and just don't care. These are going to cost a pretty penny and are just targeting the unknowing population or people who are benchmarking.. anything past 3200 is pointless in regards to performance gains. Interesting to see though regardless of the situation. Thanks for the post Hilbert!!
     
  3. Emille

    Emille Master Guru

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    What a load of ^$^$.

    I have seen benchmarks with linear benefits up to the 3600mhz they tested in gaming, especially in minimum frames, with clear benfits over 3600mhz. I'm sure the benefits go higher as well now that we can have faster ram.

    Given that you claim 3200mhz is the limit for real benefit, you wouldn't happen to be a ryzen owner with crippled ram support over 3200mhz would you?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Fallout 4 shows a 20% increase in min frames from 3000 to 4000mhz.

    And Arma is one of the most graphically demanding games and extremely cpu intensive, and still has about a 12% increase in min frames even when run at 1440p with 8FSAA and ultra settings, those are the are the sort of gains people upgrade a cpu for in the game they play, and in these new boards where they can run 4600mhz out of the box with XMP...why would you gimp yourself with budget ram?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  4. nosirrahx

    nosirrahx Master Guru

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    My understanding is that it is easier to find games that don't care much about memory frequency than it is to find games where it makes a big difference.

    For most games GPU>CPU>RAM in terms of $ spent VS. gaming performance.

    Its not really gimping yourself on RAM, its spending $ where it counts the most. If you want to spend 25% more on something RAM is not going to be the right choice.

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gaming+and+ram+frequency

    Needless to say, this has been tested quite a bit over the years.
     

  5. Emille

    Emille Master Guru

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    But this article is about ram marketed towards people buying an 8700k...the best gaming cpu money can buy, so by buying the best cpu, which at this price bracket would likely be paires with a high end gpu, only to get ram that is slower than it is capable of running, that is gimping yourself. It's a weak link to be fixed if you are willing to spend the money. Regardless of price, if I was buying a new ram kit I wouldn't even consider buying anything less than 3600mhz....with speeds like that, or higher, your ram kit is good for your next build in 2 yeara, rather than people who perpetually buy budget ram and always buy a new ram kit as a result "a cheap man pays twice".

    People who bought 1333mhz ram, 2133mhz ram etc....each of them slow for their time, and now you have people buying 2666mhz ram kits when you can get kits over 4ghz.

    Obviously more value can be found inbetween but buying at the bottom of the scale is just going to make you annoyed when they have ram at 5ghz etc when you upgrade next time. No one with a 4.6ghz ram kit is going to have to double down at that point.

    Sometimes it makes sense to pay more and buy once than go cheap and buy twice. Hence why there is a market for this stuff.
     
  6. nosirrahx

    nosirrahx Master Guru

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    IDK, I usually save the fast RAM for my final round of upgrades before I ditch a MOBO. If you wait prices and latencies will be much better than they were at the new chipset inception.

    CPU, GPU and a fast SSD contribute so much to the overall experience that I just can't justify cutting into budget for fast RAM.

    That being said, this is for PCs I build/upgrade for other people who do have a budget. Personally, yeah, I do kind of go stupid on RAM for my own PCs. I just do not feel comfortable promoting the idea as a good one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  7. Warrax

    Warrax Member Guru

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    I do see diminishing returns after 3600mhz in those graphics. Beyond 3600mhz, each mhz gives less and cost much more.
     
  8. fuzion3153

    fuzion3153 Member

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    This has got to be the worst. absolutely WORST reply I have EVER seen, not only do you defend yourself but you also defeat yourself in the same post. I love it, did you even look at your post? DO YOU EVEN SEE THE DIFFERENCE?
    No? Ok I'll show you your own post. You just showed me the difference between 3000/3600 and 4000 mhz ram which is 3~5fps and in Fallout 4 the difference between 3600 and 4000 is 1, a WHOLE 1 FPS! WOW! AMAZING, Ok now lets look at the price difference.

    16GB 3000 DDR4 Ram: 200$ Not too bad (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820232487)
    16GB 3600 DDR4 Ram: 230$ Meh (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820232491)
    16GB 4000 DDR Ram: 276$ almost 80$ more (https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/g...ations-for-intel-coffee-lake-platform.417233/)

    So your going to pay 70~80$ for +4% of performance.. Sorry buddy, your logic is flawed. Here, I have a great video for you to watch.
     
  9. Emille

    Emille Master Guru

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    That video is garbage, linuses reviews are nonsense. His 8700k review showed almost identical performance across the board with ryzen and 7700k in every title, I don't knopw what retarded testing methodology he uses by no other reviewer echoed his results. The same with the ram test, plenty7 have tests have showed a significant difference.
    https://www.techspot.com/article/1171-ddr4-4000-mhz-performance/

    My post showed a difference of 10 minimum frames for a 20% boost in fallout 4 from 3000 to 4000mhz, I posted that in response to the claim that there is no difference besides synthetic benchmarks above 3200mhz.

    Clearly a 10fps gain from below the refresh rate that everyone on earth has as a minimum from 53 to 63 is extremely substantial.

    If you think $76 more for a 20% improvement in minimum frames is not worth is then you are insane. An 8700k here is about $550, and a motherboard for it is $300+, you will already have to buy ram if you are building a PC so you will be spending several hundred dollars on ram anway, $76 is absolutely nothing and ram speeds have shown that there is a significant improvement in minimum frames. If I could get even a 10% improvement in minimum frames in even half the games I play, then that is proportionally the best $76 spent out of all hardware bought.

    My last graphics card was $1249. What is this a Scrapwars pc forum?

    We are talking about the best gaming cpu, matched with a 1080 or 1080ti and probably an ssd for most people, $76 is absolutely nothing.


    That was the WORST rebuttal I have EVER read.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  10. fuzion3153

    fuzion3153 Member

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    "On the subject of memory timings, we didn’t see a huge impact on performance when going from , say CAS16 to CAS19, and while the latency does start to creep up this is solved by going to the next speed grade. In short, low-latency DDR4-2400 won’t match the performance of slacker DDR4-3000 memory.

    We recommend Skylake builders aim for DDR4-3000 memory, but if you can go faster without paying much more then feel free to do so."


    Did you even read the the final statement on that website you posted? I put some bold on some key wording for you so it may stick out a little bit better for you. And finally after getting home from work I was able to read through the entire post, and you most certainly did cherry pick quite a bit form that article, a majority of the graphs you picked actually showed a couple more fps then the average game, which was anywhere from 1-2fps ~ 4-5 fps increase from 3000mhz to 4000mhz. I feel bad for the people you tell to spend the extra cash on that DDR4, for me when I start to see 30-40 FPS increase I'll throw down the extra cash. and to answer you earlier question I dont use ryzen, I have always used intel and also have an 8700k on the way, and I will be happy using my 3200mhz.

    And just to back this up even more, even the most prestigious gamers/streamers/PC builders - who are sponsored and make a crap ton more money then me who have the BEST CPUs and the BEST GPU's have not gone higher or above 3000mhz.

    Summit1g : Corsair Vengeance 64 GB DDR4 3000MHz
    Shroud: Kingston Technology HyperX Predator Black 32GB Kit 3000MHz
    Timthattatman: 16GB Corsair LPX Vengeance 2800 MHz
    JayZTwoCents: G.Skill - Ripjaws 4 series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory


    Go look up in google the #1 gaming PC right now, it's literally called the "Dream Machine 2017" and you know what ram is in that? RAM: 128GB (8x 16GB) Crucial Ballistix Elite DDR4-3200.

    So your going to continue to tell me, that I'm gimping my PC? Well crap I guess all these professional people are too, you better get out and spread the word!!!
     

  11. Emille

    Emille Master Guru

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    That is so dumb it hurts.

    You could use that same ridiculous logic to say that in some games overclocking a cpu from 4ghz to 4.8ghz only gives you 1 more frame, does that mean overclocking is pointless because in that game the benefit is small? When in another game you might gain 20 frames from that overclock, or boost the min frames over 60?

    Well I guess if anything over 4ghz is pointless then if we are using that logic, and if anything over 4ghz is pointless then unlocked processors are pointless, and motherboards that cost more because of better overclocking and coolingn those are pointless as well.

    Then everyone can run an i5, a gtx 1070 and 3000mhz ram because it's 'enough for most people'

    Like I said, what is this, a second hand pc build website or Guru3D?

    Oh and nvme hard drives are pointless because in some situations they don't perform better than a sata ssd.

    Oh and more than 2 case fans is pointless because there is diminishing returns, high refresh rate monitors are pointless ( especially if you are running the plain jane ram you endorse ).

    Yep. No one should buy faster goods that cost proportionally more. That's why everyone on earth drives a 4 cylinder hatch back....and has only one child, and so on and so forth.

    Faster ram is not pointless, my becnhmarks show it, overclocked cpus are not pointless, even though sometimes there is no performnace gain in some benches.

    It is all situational, depending on your usage an ssd might not be much faster than a mechanial drives if you are opening small files already cached on the drive buffer, that doesn't make ssds pointlesd though.

    Also some games and programs there is no performance gain going from an i5 to an i7....I gues that makes 'everything over an i5 pointless )

    Lol at the 'dream machine' they used slower ram because 128gb of ram costs a lot of money, not because 64gb of 3600mhz wouldn't be faster and more beneficial, but because idiot fanboys see the '128' and get aroused.

    If you don't think that 64 or 32 gig or 3600, 4000, or 4600mhz ram in that pc wouldn't make it faster you are objectively wrong.

    Pointing the scenarios where ram speed doesn't boost performance in a specific instance doesn't mean that faster ram doesn't improve performance elsewheren just like my benchmarks showed, and the same with an overclocked cpu and a faster ssd. It all adds up.

    This ram is marketed at 8700k owners, not for budget minded cynical peasants trying to justify their ageing hardware.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  12. fuzion3153

    fuzion3153 Member

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    LOL so your comparing cpu overclock and car engines, this convo is over. Such a waste of time.
     
  13. Emille

    Emille Master Guru

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    If you can't see the comaprison then you are thick, not my fault.

    'You don't see any gain as ram speed goes up in these specific circumstances'

    'Most people only drive 60kph 99% of the time so anything over 4 cyilders is a waste'

    'In everday usage you don't get the main benefit of an ssds high reads and write speeds, so an ssd is a waste for most people'

    'If you are gaming at 1080p then anything over a 1070 is a waste at 60hz most of the time'

    It's all about your complaining about premium products where you pay more for more performance above the average usage scenario and requirements.

    You keep arguing from a budget perspective, which is exactly what a 4 cylinder car is, yet so many people have more because they WANT more and see the benefit as a result of their geater need.

    Don't pretend there is no benefit just because you can't justify it. I owned a 780 like you and have upgraded 3 times since then, obviously you won't justify the money if you are happy with a 4 year old gpu, and obviously someone who is buying an 8700k...the newest and best cpu money can buy, will be more likely to justify the money for the fastest ram and is not a bargain hunter for whatever is 'just enough'

    I guess everyone who has 3600/4000mhz ram should downgrade to 3200mhz because that 'dream pc 2017' said it has the bestest ram there is, I'm sure they will realise the error of their ways in not buying slower ram in excessive volumes they will never use.
     
  14. fuzion3153

    fuzion3153 Member

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    You win, your right. I'm wrong. Hope you sleep better tonight now.

    Edit: people are already having problems with xmp going above 3200.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/74ue81/8700k_xmp_problems/
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  15. nz3777

    nz3777 Ancient Guru

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    I would pay for faster ramm if it improved performance from any aspect not just at gaming fps,I did enjoy reading your guys little argument about paying more for 4000mhz ddr4 some funny stuff really.

    If I am already spending 350+ on the cpu, another 300 on the board why not get the best ram your machine can run as well? You dont buy a custom made suit and wear your old Nike shoes do you? No you get yourself the best shoes to match your suit I hope? Lol.

    Enough bashing on the 4 cylinder motors there is 2.0l motors now putting out 100hp per liter, thats amazing actually power to weight ratio, what do you want?
     

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