Freesync goes out of sync (desyncronization between refresh rate and framerate)

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by fixide, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. fixide

    fixide Member

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    It's new because some users report this desync is not present in 15.12. In TW3 I had the same trouble too but clearly less than in the division.
    This means that for one or few seconds freesync no longer works (so you can have tearing or stutter). So it's not normal... Refresh rate must follow FPS all the time.

    I understand that it was the AMD driver who manage freesync with DP1.2a (unlike the hardware gsync module). Looks like the monitor fails to follow gpu with some scenes therefore it returns to its maximum frequency (89 in my case) regardless of the framerate
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  2. k1net1cs

    k1net1cs Ancient Guru

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    It's weird though that it'd have problems with specific scenes...especially since FreeSync should only be concerned with fps numbers.
    And the monitor changes refresh rate only when instructed by the GPU driver to do so, if I correctly understand how it should work.

    My guess is since FreeSync is being driven by the GPU driver, there has to be some way for the driver to properly get the current fps number.
    And the problem probably lies in how fast the driver decide on what to tell the monitor to set its refresh rate into.

    We all know AMD's been good with frame times ever since Omega (and a couple specific versions before that mainly targeted CFX configs), but we've been taking that frame time performance for granted these days...and mainly testing API Overhead ever since Oxide benchmark.

    I don't know if frame times can affect the 'fps counter' for FreeSync, but it's an interesting venue to look at if anyone is able to check (between 15.12 and Crimsons)...especially with the problematic games you mentioned.

    Just a thought.
     
  3. Bloodred217

    Bloodred217 Master Guru

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    I think FreeSync can't work unless it syncs every frame, so it has to work based on frame time, not frame rate. Frame rate is more of a convenience measurement, it's frame time that really matters.
     
  4. jono24776

    jono24776 Member

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    I have noticed the same behaviour with 16.3 so i rolled back to 16.2.1 and whilst the same sporadic hike to 144hz happens especially in The Witcher 3 the game is alot smoother than under 16.3 where it stutters when the spikes to 144hz happen. I have submitted a bug report so hopefully RTG pick it up an roll out a fix
     

  5. Bloodred217

    Bloodred217 Master Guru

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    TW3 is exceptionally spiky in terms of frame time as far as I can tell, especially with CF. It's not a very CF-friendly title.
     
  6. jono24776

    jono24776 Member

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    I know what you mean I have to cap the fps at 48 @1440p which is fine with freesync then these refresh rate spikes started to appear
     
  7. fixide

    fixide Member

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    On my side i've send a PM to AMDMATT in AMDforums. I hope he can looks this thread.

    I have also contacted Asus who told me it was a problem with AMD and it was the graphics card that sent the wrong information.
    Too easy for them knowing that the screen is certified to work with the R9 290. It is to Asus arrange with AMD rather whether the consumer need says to AMD "hello".
     
  8. Plug2k

    Plug2k Ancient Guru

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    Well if AMDMATT checks this thread i hope he can figure out what the driver team has done to Freesync monitor detection aswell through display port as the graphics card driver crashes when powering off this monitor and powering on this monitor
    or changing resolutions in game or on the desktop

    half the time, most of the time the graphics driver on my 295X2 crashes...
     
  9. k1net1cs

    k1net1cs Ancient Guru

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    Well, maybe every time there's a hike in avg fps on benchmarks on new driver releases, users should also check if the frame time also takes a hike.
    IIRC when AMD finally tackled down the frame time problem, the avg fps was down a bit for the most part, but frame time was much more stable.

    Seems now the problem is more apparent for FreeSync users when avg fps starts rising up again with latest drivers.
     
  10. fixide

    fixide Member

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    Still unresolved on 16.3.1
     

  11. solo16

    solo16 Active Member

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    I have the similar hardware as you MG279Q and 290x. I don't really recall any issue with other games as I didn't play much recently except The Division, I guess it's somehow broken with the game as I have white vertical line on the far left edge of the monitor and "invisible" vertical line in the middle, no problem with RotTR DX11. Also I need to toggle Alt + Tab several time on The Division everytime I load the game so guess it's a bug or something.
     
  12. fixide

    fixide Member

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    Solo16, The Division is highly impacted and freesync experience is devastating on this game.

    Unless you can find other games where freesync will malfunction : Just cause 3, XCOM2 or TW3 with latests crimsons. Just keep the OSD on screen.

    On just cause 3 it's horrible...

    It's annoying if freesync requires a driver per game while gsync works directly. Maybe this is the difference between a software and hardware (gsync scaller) solution ?

    Thanks to pcgameshardware.de to quote our thread.
    http://www.pcgameshardware.de/AMD-Freesync-Hardware-259942/News/The-Division-Probleme-1190046/

    I really hope a AMD return on this...
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
  13. solo16

    solo16 Active Member

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    I tried TW3 yeah I realize it's out of sync, but I'm pretty sure it was working perfectly at least on the first version of Crimson. guess they messed up on the driver. Let's just hope they'll fix it soon.

    OT, the freesync is a bit fussy in a way like the Unity Engine game aren't able to use freesync at all unless you download a program called unityfullscreenfixer, eventhough there's no guarantee (wasteland 2 and pillar of eternity works) it'll work at least for game like sword coast legend won't.
     
  14. fixide

    fixide Member

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    Yes, that's what we noticed. These desynchronizations are present on subsequent drivers to 15.12.

    The frame limiter has absolutely no effect. Even limiting to 50 fps, we can be out of sync with 89 Hz. It is as if the screen no longer received the FS information from the GPU.

    I'm not agree with the article that links the problems to full screen.
    For me the division is on full display. In this case freesync works but is out of sync regularly.
    If the division was in windowed borderless freesync would not work at all.

    I am sad that there is no return of AMD on the subject at least telling us that the problem is addressed. I have not managed to bring Matt on the topic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  15. fixide

    fixide Member

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    16.3.2 released and no changes in freesync. 0 return from AMD too...
    It is hopeless
     

  16. k1net1cs

    k1net1cs Ancient Guru

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    It's their way of telling you to buy their latest because it obviously 'has more support'.

    I'm all for FreeSync, tbh...but as with any other 'revolutionary' tech of AMD, they tend to lose steam from initial release in terms of support.
    It's almost like they won't bother until other 'important' things are getting fixed.
    I mean, they somehow managed to break per-app profiles with recent releases; still not fixed unless you do a 'dirty' install from a pre-Crimson set.
     
  17. Bloodred217

    Bloodred217 Master Guru

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    How exactly are you seeing the desync, other than the OSD? Tearing? I'm curious to see if it happens on my 60Hz display too, but it has no OSD.
     
  18. fixide

    fixide Member

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    Yep, you can have tearing or stutter depend of the game. For example with division the game is clearly smoother without freesync...
    On tw3 desync are less frequent. So it's still nicer to have freesync on.
    Now the 16.3.2 are whql this is worrying as there only with the 15.12 freesync that the situation was still correct.

    I think all monitors are impacted but I think there are only asus who had the good idea of visibility on the current refresh rate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
  19. Bloodred217

    Bloodred217 Master Guru

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    The only tearing I've seen is in Vermintide, in the level intro cinematics, but I'm running that game with forced CF (there's no profile, of course) so a bit of tearing during a cinematic and otherwise good performance is a deal I'm willing to take with an unsupported game. I'm quite sure FS is working otherwise, as it's very, very noticeable if it's off. I've also seen tearing in Ashes of the Singularity DX12, but FS isn't supported by default in DX12 as far as I know.

    Other than that, no tearing at all and games are smooth if they actually maintain decent FPS. I'm wondering if the issue you have with this Asus monitor could be related to the fact that the max FS refresh rate isn't also the max panel refresh rate without FS, since I'm not seeing any difference at all in FS since CF support first popped up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
  20. fixide

    fixide Member

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    Some of users (as me) tested with FS range modded with CRU (57-144). It is the same except that the desync is at 143 Hz instead of 89.
    Tested here :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L01NjyUqPZ8

    I just think that there are times when the screen does not follow the GPU so, without more information, it return to the max frequency (used on the desktop).
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016

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