Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Dener de Paula Pereira, May 22, 2019.
most people know fullscreen optimizations because they break games.
"Full Screen Optimizations" essentially runs your exclusive fullscreen content in Borderless Windowed FullScreen mode, which parses everything through DWM and uses VSync. (Not sure if it's triple buffered too, but I think it is) Nice for convenience, and for Alt-Tab'ing in and out, but bad for latency.
Yeah, apparently it could cause latency, honestly, I don't notice it, specially if you set max-pre rendered frames to 1. I always prefer framerate consistency than wrong framepacing. Until I get a variable refresh monitor, this is the best ATM. It does add Triple Buffer to the games it's set to, but some just get broken with that on, it does not work flawlessly at all games.
Some, not all. You can enable them and disable them per .exe
Its not placebo at all
I've done some tests today, with all "frame limiter" opitions in nvidia inspector and i've seen then the "Allow All" setting have worst 0,1%low but a lot better 1%low, framerate and frametimes.
Maybe this is what make all the games on my rig "seem" smoother in general
Actually, no. It makes it borderless but without DWM and there's no forced vsync (triple buffered or otherwise.) It's really the best mode (because of fast alt+tab,) when it works. Basically, it's delivering the same thing as borderless mode on Windows XP/Vista/7 did with Aero disabled, but it's implemented differently.
However. since it doesn't work for all games, many people prefer to disable it globally. Which is fine for now it seems, but with recent Windows 10 versions, disabling FO makes the game run on a backwards compatibility shim (the same you get when you select "Windows 7" for example in the exe's properties). As a result, disabling FO might not be the "optimal" setup anymore.
"Fscking Windows 98! Get Bill Gates in here!"
How this is still so true today.
Dude, give some screen and benchmarks. I tried it myself and the frametimes were awful, far from smooth (I tried Shadow Of Mordor). In fact, setting max pre-rendered frames to 1 on the nVidia control panel without frame rate limiters gives almost a perfect 16.6 ms frametime. Then I used Full Screen Optimizations and made the game perfectly smooth at 16.6 ms all of the time. It only hitches when loading stuff in the background sometimes because I have the game on a HDD.
Also, you didn't mention if you used "Allow All" with the nVidia fps limiter or any other limiter.
people keep saying this, but its not true
I've tested on dmc 5 using RTSS to cap the framerate at 75 (the max refresh rate of the monitor)
I let the "Frame Limiter 2" in "Allow All" and the "Frame Limiter Opition" in "off"
If you are already using RTSS to limit the framerate, then adding limiters with the nVidia control panel is doing nothing except creating more input lag. And the RTSS will override any limiter you have, it's always on top of any fps limiter, so it's cancelling any changes the nVidia Inspector fps limiter has done. The smoothest frametimes are either using Full Screen Optimizations (for games that support them and don't get broken with them on) or Borderless FullScreen, then adding RTSS to smooth out the frametimes even more; i'ts not needed at this point but some people add it as an extra layer of smoothness.
Keep in mind that the less variance your frametime has at any game, RTSS will have an easier job to give you the best frametimes since it doesn't have to "fight" the game throwing the frametimes all over the place. The Frame Limiter 2 Allow All didn't seem very smooth or stable to me, however I will try it at some other games to see if it has any possitive results. So far I only tried one game.
It seems then this setting (Limiter 2 - Allow All) somehow complements the RTSS limiter.
If you're having problems with it i recomend you to test with other setting: "Frame Limiter Setting: Accurate" and "Frame Limiter 2 - Off"
It is true.
Please stop spreading this fictional belief.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the below document the new mode:
This is a a very brief overview of it scaled down to 9 minutes, your claim is not 'truth' because there are many facets at play.
A game can only use dwm bypass if it is programmed to do so, otherwise the fullscreen optimisation bypasses nothing.
fyi: if you're compositing, you're not bypassing dwm.
Your video demonstrates hardware independent flip, which you seem to be trying to use to support your claim that dwm is bypassed (which is not accurate)
DWM is still the compositor interface, but DirectFlip models the swapchain within the application instead of the compositor, so its not held back by DWM being double buffered (which it is, it is NOT triplebuffered).
It's all a bunch of crazy magic presentation crap, but DWM is still in use without the limitations of dwm swap chains and is mostly 'asleep' until an overlay is drawn into the application.
So yeah, you're not "bypassing" DWM, because when wouldn't be able to bring the gamebar up on screen if you were.
Microsoft needs to proof read its articles more because the crap they say sometimes is imprecise.
Added a link to some proper descriptions.
FO does work with games that were not developed to know about this mode. A very old DX9 game I still play is Colin McRae Rally 2005. That's a game from 2004. It is notorious for not allowing you to alt+tab out of it. It will crash the game most of the time. With FO enabled, the game gets redirected to use a mode that feels like windowed borderless, but there's no DWM (it tears) and you can alt+tab easily. DWM gets enabled when you change Windows volume and the volume bar shows up. Lag increases when that happens and tearing disappears. When the volume bar fades out, DWM is bypassed again.
The same is true for most other games, old and new. But with exceptions. It's not 100% compatible with every game.
That's with Windows 1709, which is what I use.
Also, if you enable g-sync while a game runs in that mode, g-sync engages even if windowed mode g-sync is disabled. As soon as a DWM element needs to show (volume bar), DWM is enabled and g-sync gets disabled. Once the volume bar fades out, DWM turns off, g-sync re-engages.
I don't think DirectFlip is doing anything in your examples case, it is a function of the DXGI model and as Colin McRae 2005 is a dx9 title it wouldn't be affected at all by DirectFlip. There may be something else that 10 is performing with DX9 titles via the application compatibility layer.
The problem with windows 10 is full screen optimizations has not got a full tech net article explaining what they are doing and how.
Yes, so DWM (the process) is still being used for the DirectFlip and Independent Flip implementations but the composition that DWM provides is bypassed by these until an onscreen overlay is presented.
Microsoft are mixing up "bypassing DWM" with "Bypassing various steps in the compositor" which would have been more accurate, if you weren't drawing into DWM, then the compositor couldn't wake up and do its business on screen as it does.
Sometimes, I think people tweak and disable things Microsoft added to Windows under the assumption that if Microsoft did it, it's bad for me. I play lots of games, new and old. Fullscreen Optimization in my usage has been flawless, effectively the upsides of both windowed mode and exclusive fullscreen. And if I ever were to come across the very rare game that actually is negatively effected by FO, there is a convenient compatibility setting.
Maybe I'm missing something, maybe it works so well because I use Gsync.
Also this thread started with a person completely seduced by the placebo effect. This is at least a much better topic than OPs.
i couldn't change the resolution in USF4 without it hanging so long as FSO was enabled, its a 'hack' and hacks should not be enabled globally, or by default.
But here we are :\