Flight 447

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Deleted member 109358, Jun 6, 2009.

  1. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,146
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    integrated - fffffffuuuuu
    How much water pressure can a black box withstand?
     
  2. Anubis

    Anubis Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,788
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Gigabyte GTX 760 4GB
    Flight Data Recorder
    Time recorded = 25 hour continuous
    Number of parameters = 18 - 1000+
    Impact tolerance = 3400Gs / 6.5 ms
    Fire resistance = 1100 degC / 30 min
    Water pressure resistance submerged = 20,000 ft
    Underwater locator beacon = 37.5 KHz; battery has shelf life of 6 years or more, with 30-day operation capability upon activation

    Cockpit Voice Recorder
    Time recorded = 30 min continuous, 2 hours for solid state digital units
    Number of channels = 4
    Impact tolerance = 3400Gs / 6.5 ms
    Fire resistance = 1100 degC / 30 min
    Water pressure resistance submerged = 20,000 ft
    Underwater locator beacon = 37.5 KHz; battery has shelf life of 6 years or more, with 30-day operation capability upon activation

    The ULB, also known as the "pinger" usually have the following specifications
    Underwater Locator Beacon (ULB)
    Operating Frequency:37.5 kHz ± 1 kHz
    Operating Depth:Surface to 20,000 feet
    Pulse Length:Not less than 9 milliseconds
    Pulse Repetition Rate:Not less than 0.9 pulse per second
    Useful Life:Six years
    Operating Life:30 days (minimum)
    Acoustic Output, Initial:1060 dynes/cm2 rms pressure at 1 meter (160.5 dB)Acoustic Output, After 30 days:700 dynes/cm2 rms pressure at 1 meter (157.0 dB)
    Operating Temperature:28º F to 100º F
    Actuation:Fresh or salt water, surface to 20,000 feet
    Radiation Pattern:Rated output over 80 percent of sphere

    edit: in 20000 feet deep (6,09km) there's a pressure of 606psi (41.7 bar)
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2009
  3. hallryu

    hallryu Don Altobello

    Messages:
    11,386
    Likes Received:
    14
    GPU:
    2x HD7970
    Well I'm not sure but Aircraft fly over deep water all the time so it would be inconceivable for the design engineers not to have created sufficient tolerance in the device to withstand the deepest waters! The problem is finding some thing the size or a brief case in several thousand feet of water! THe currents could pull the device, if detached from the fuselage, a long way from the crash site. Also, the pinger is not guaranteed to be still attached!

    I hope they find them, the relatives deserve to know what happened. The investigators will also want to make sure that if anything could have been done to prevent this, that such measures are introduced asap.
     
  4. acer

    acer Banned

    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    evga 9800gtx
    odds are it was lightning that took out the electrical systems and turbulence that took it down. Whats worse is that in particular area depths can exceed 24k feet. no way they fining that.
     

  5. Alec**

    Alec** Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Saphire 5850 1GB H²0
    Although allot of people are saying it, i think its highly unlikely it was taken out by thunder alone, cause that would be a pretty big problem if one of those huge planes could be taken out by a stike of thunder. I heard that the plane did have known electrical, faults isn't the right word more problems as apparently it only just scraped through its last test ... but thats just a rummer.
     
  6. biggerx

    biggerx Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,589
    Likes Received:
    9
    GPU:
    EVGA RTX 3070 FTW
    lightning?
     
  7. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,146
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    integrated - fffffffuuuuu
    Aeronautic engineering is not for amateurs, so I've little patience for cries of conspiracy at this point.

    Depth is 4-5km according to wikipedia. So that'd make it around 13-16k feet deep.
     
  8. Alec**

    Alec** Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Saphire 5850 1GB H²0
    Lightning , thunder same thing :)
     
  9. acer

    acer Banned

    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    evga 9800gtx
    no it isn't
     
  10. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

    Messages:
    25,214
    Likes Received:
    9
    GPU:
    7950 Vapor-X 1100/1500
    From what I read, the debris path was 55 miles long.
     

  11. acer

    acer Banned

    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    evga 9800gtx
    first bodies are starting to show up
     
  12. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,017
    Likes Received:
    6
    GPU:
    Gigabyte RTX 3080
    Airplanes are designed to conduct electricity, which would make them pretty much immune to a lightning strike.

    It would take exceptional circumstances to take an Airbus out of the air.

    If the rumours are true that the plane was a flying disaster with less than reliable electrics, then it seems viable that turbulance due to a severe storm possibly resulting and/or having some effect in causing instability in its electrical grid would spell disaster.

    The captain would have a hell of a time keeping his plane in the air without a working radar, auto pilot and status dashboard telling him his altitude and pitch.

    At the end of the day, planes can only fly when they have working engines, they dont glide... without engines they simply fall.

    I don't see where the conspiracy is to tell you the truth, other than the fact that the plane was less than worthy of carrying passangers.
     
  13. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    19,051
    Likes Received:
    13
    GPU:
    GIGABYTE Radeon R9 280
    Probably an unforseen mechanical failure caused by severe weather?

    EDIT: If the report shown here states that one of the bodies are still strapped to their seats, then that should mean that the aircraft came apart midair instead of when it smashed 'cuz the bodies are far from the wreckage...

    http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/06/06/air-france-investigation.html

    deltatux
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
  14. nm+

    nm+ Don Cappuccino Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,422
    Likes Received:
    17
    GPU:
    old
    Everything else is true, but:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varig_Flight_254
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapag-Lloyd_Flight_3378
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KLM_Flight_867
    and of course
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_1549

    Wouldn't have glided as far as they would have needed, but they don't simply fall.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
  15. r3claim3r

    r3claim3r Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,982
    Likes Received:
    12
    GPU:
    EVGA 3080 XC3 Ultra
    I would have to agree with nm+ on this one. Oh and let's add the space shuttle orbiter to that list as well. And that one descends more steeply than others because of the extra drag at the unpowered engines--and yet they land it.
     

  16. Cybermancer

    Cybermancer Don Quixote

    Messages:
    13,795
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    BFG GTX260OC (192 SP)
    Totally unrelated, but I've actually seen it once. Very impressive sight, imo.
     
  17. Passion Fruit

    Passion Fruit Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,017
    Likes Received:
    6
    GPU:
    Gigabyte RTX 3080
    Obviously i was referring to commercial airliners and not "gliders" or civilian aircraft.

    Using common sense, its obvious they will "glide" to some extent, but not exactly to the extent that it will be airbourne for any length of time. Usually it's enough that a captain will be able to land his plane as quickly and safely as possible, and even that's in respectable weather...

    In stormy conditions with no electrics and severe turbulance, it's likey that the plane was either torn apart by shear or hit the sea at at speed... gliding would have been almost impossible given the information we currently have.

    r3claim3r: The Space Shuttle is designed to glide back down to earth... a commercial airliner is only designed to glide so far as to laned as safely and as soon as possible... as Cyber said, they are totally unrelated.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
  18. morfeus02

    morfeus02 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Sapphire HD4870 1GB GDDR5
    those planes cannot go in a total electrical failure...

    as i said they have 4 backup lines+ 1 eolic power generator for onboard instruments
     
  19. hallryu

    hallryu Don Altobello

    Messages:
    11,386
    Likes Received:
    14
    GPU:
    2x HD7970
    Oh it can, its designed by man!
     
  20. Hyvry1

    Hyvry1 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,453
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    980m 8GB
    The shuttle is designed simply to throw away as much of its kinetic energy as possible as heat and light. That is why it has small wings and a generally blunt shape. Typically the shuttle can glide 4-5ft forward for every ft lost at best. A commercial airliner will glide between 17-25ft (depending on the wing characteristics) for every ft fallen.

    As has been suggested initially by the news reports only multiple failures could have brought this plane down. I would not expect lightning to take down an aircraft. Although it seems the weather was a contributing factor to what I expect an already compromised aircraft.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009

Share This Page