Fix game stutter on Win 10 1703-1809

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Mott, Apr 3, 2018.

  1. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    https://msrc-blog.microsoft.com/2017/11/21/clarifying-the-behavior-of-mandatory-aslr/

    And you can check whether EXE opts in to ASLR in Process Explorer - just add the ASLR column.
    By description of that protection feature it fires only when process is created (so called image is loaded into RAM).
    Info just in case.

    PS
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-says-aslr-behavior-in-windows-10-is-a-feature-not-a-bug/
     
  2. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    So, if you wanted to next test IMO would be to add BF1 to the program exception and put back stock system exploit settings, that may work for BF1.

    I think it all depends on the application how well it works either way.
     
  3. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    I don't know if I am an exception but for me, in BFV the only time I get the standby list to affect stuttering is playing Grand Operation, were stuttering only happens after day2 into day3. I never get it in Conquest which only lasts 1/2hr.

    PS: I just realized I do have BFV in exclude program list, I forget when I added that.
     
  4. Mico

    Mico Member

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    So exceptions work for you. So far i've only tried the Campaig and:.
    Protection + exceptions = stuttery mess
    Protection + exceptions + ISLC = stutterfree but huge cpu spikes at cleans
    No Protection = all fine
    I'm gonna drop it here, i don't have anymore all this time as i said, and tbh i prefer to play in the free time rather than testing.
    I'll just leave everything off and use some 3rd party software if i really feel in need.
    Hopefully you can go deeper in the problem and find a proper balance!
     

  5. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    I shouldn't have used the word "exception" in my first sentence.
    I have not messed with system settings, just exclude BFV in program settings (everything off). I still need Standby list cleaning on long in-game modes like Grand Operations but in 1/2 hrs long modes I get no stuttering even w/o standby list cleaning.
     
  6. Mico

    Mico Member

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    :p Sorry my english ain't good at all so i trueted yours and used "exception" :p
    Back to home and i tried various online modes. Also tried opening different games in a short time window to fill up the mem.
    I didn't bother to reactivate the protections. The system is working perfectly even on zero mem avail which is what i was looking for. (my ram was not costy, but i didn't buy 16gb to get 15)
    Memory is used as it should, and thats enugh.
    Not complaining about ISLC (that idd made games stutterfree till now), but @Microsoft....before forcing settings without a word, give an advice.
    Never heard a word about this setting, but they gladly advertised Ink-Junk, History-Junk, and so on...meh
     
  7. evertjr

    evertjr Member

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    So I did further test... Quantum break (Windows Store version) was the most stuttery game ever on my system, completely unplayable without ISLC... and since disabling this specific mitigation the game is buttery smooth even with several other applications opened in background. Loaded multiple maps in Battlefield 1 and no stutters, even Assassin's Creed Odysseys seems smoother.

    So now I believe this mitigation is somehow leaking memory as I noticed that now the standby list rarely go above 5gb (I have 16gb ram) and it reduces automatically upon exiting the game (maybe this is like it should behave?)

    Anyway I'll let this disabled until another major Windows Update to see if anything changes.
     
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  8. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    This mitigation can`t leak memory because it only affects the initial stage of process creation - the loading of image from storage to memory. I see that you tested the influence of this mitigation, so I will not say "rubbish", but explanation lies somewhere else.

    PS There is a way to test your explanation though: compare the amount of memory for the same exe-file process (right after the start) with ASLR mitigation and without.
     
  9. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    Thanks for the link, well I tested BF1 and BFV both don't have support for ASLR or CFG, DEP is enabled in Process Explorer.

    So this might be a system side effect of ASLR, not the actual app is doing it but a system-wide issue if reports are right.
     
  10. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    It can be that ASLR affects not the game process but some system ones (executed on the background).
     

  11. Wagnard

    Wagnard Ancient Guru

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    We must not forgot that the GPU driver allocate memory for textures and could be associated with this rebase+randomization of addresses too.
    When memory is low it could also be responsible for the stutter.
    Never really checked but is this issue affecting AMD too or was it an Nvidia only issue?
     
  12. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    I doubt it. Rebase and randomization affects the addresses assigned to the starting process by OS (loader). Image of exe-file contains several segments - headers, static data, code. They can`t have absolute addresses in image lying on the disk. When OS loader reads all those segments it should assign absolute addresses to allow the code to work. ASLR randomize that process of assigning absolute addresses preventing the process to have the same absolute addresses after each start. When loaded program or driver allocates the memory it gets the memory from the heap (which is already affected by ASLR) or from global pool, and ASLR has nothing to do with such dynamic allocations (they can`t be randomized).
    PS Overall standby list is not about process memory, standby list is about physical pages.

    https://www.tenouk.com/ModuleW.html
    (see "W.7 PROCESS LOADING")

    https://www.microsoftpressstore.com/articles/article.aspx?p=2233328&seqNum=3
    (see Stage 3D: Concluding the Setup of the Process Address Space)

    PS In short ASLR only affects the steps performed inside the CreateProcess API function - randomizing the process address space layout. After process is started and begins to allocate memory there is no ASLR.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  13. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    Did a quick search.
    https://community.amd.com/thread/239411

    Hmm, that link I am not sure it's AMD GPU, could be CPU, looking further there are a lot of Nvidia posts with ISLC.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  14. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    Swapping to disk can cause it, which I had issues with a while back when running CFX, testing with and without pagefile on a HDD. That was a full on hitch. I can imagine SSD swapping still causing stutter.
    I'm gonna try disabling this ASLR for some results.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  15. Wagnard

    Wagnard Ancient Guru

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    On my side they have support for DEP & ASLR (no CFG tho). Must click properties on the executable in Process explorer. The column way is not always accurate.
     

  16. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    But I get a different value on the ASLR, for me it reads "enabled (permanent)disabled" in properties for BFV, but a process like firefox says "High-Entropy,Bottom-up" .
     
  17. Xentic

    Xentic New Member

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    I made a video, which shows AC Origins not stuttering, despite free memory being close to 0. (I have disabled every protection globally)

    There are fps drops, but its due to recording/100% cpu usage. (nice optimization from Ubisoft once again)

     
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  18. Mico

    Mico Member

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    It's my english faulting or many people around here was aware of the issue/fix?
     
  19. Mico

    Mico Member

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    This is my thought too. Exclusions don't work because the rest of the system will still use ASLR causing stuttering (less often, but still there).
     
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  20. Mico

    Mico Member

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    Thanks! Actually disabling ASLR only works fine!
     

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