First watercooling build: please critique

Discussion in 'Die-hard Overclocking & Case Modifications' started by Belfaborac, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. Belfaborac

    Belfaborac Active Member

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    It's about time for a new PC build and this time I thought I'd finally make the jump to watercooling. I'll be building a Threadripper-based system (either 1900X or 1920X) and I've considered an AIO, from either Swiftech or EK (which should be arriving by the end of the year), but rather than wait for those to launch I thought I might as well opt for a custom loop.

    So....given that this is fresh territory for me, I thought it best to run it past people who know before actually buying anything. Below is a list of the main components I've settled on right now and if anything stupid or sub-par jump out at you I'd be grateful to hear your thoughts.

    Waterblock: XSPC Raystorm or EK Supremacy (depending on price & availability)
    Radiator: HW Labs SR2 420MP
    Fans: 3 x NB eLoop B14-PS (1200rpm/24dB)
    Pump/Reservoir: Watercool Heatkiller Tube 150/200 D5
    Tubing: Soft 16/10 tubing, EK ZMT
    Hose Fittings: EK-ACF Compression Fittings
    Cooling Liquid: Mayhem

    Does this look like a competent set-up?

    My primary concerns are silent operation and dependability, not overclocking (or I wouldn't be building a TR4 system, although I would like to run it at 4GHz). Given that, I'd like your thoughts on whether I can step down to the 900rpm NB eLoops and still retain sufficient cooling, or if I'd be better with the ones listed? Any other thoughts you may have would of course be very welcome.

    - B
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  2. jura11

    jura11 Guest

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    Hi there

    Yes looks good there,but I would probably go with different route there or will choose different parts and add few more..

    For CPU waterblock I would go with EK Supermacy TR4 because looks like this one will be again CPU waterblock to beat,but still I would wait on Watercool Heatkiller IV TR4,these blocks has been best in test and reviews

    Radiator,I wouldn't touch Alphacool radiators in my builds,they come dirty from factory and you will need flush them at least to get them clean,just check few threads about the flux and solder and Alphacool,I've returned two of them last time when I build loop for my friend and went with HWLabs Nemesis GTS360 at front and on top with same GTS360,he wanted thin radiators and not running fans at push/pull plus he wanted radiators which have good performance with slow fans,if radiators then HWLabs are best radiators,other radiator which I would consider is EK XE360 or Mayhems Havoc series

    For fans this depends there,I'm running on top radiator Phanteks PH-F120MP which are quiet fans if I don't run them well beyond 1350RPM but in range 1000-1200RPM they're pretty quiet,other fans I would consider are BeQuiet Silent Wings 3 PWM or Corsair ML120

    For reservoir and pump,D5 should be enough just get cylindrical reservoir will be easier to get trapped air out,these bay res are PITA and used two of them on other builds and I wouldn't touch them personally

    Tubing,really I like EK ZMT which can be harder to tighten up but with EK ACF fittings this will be easier to do so,I'm using this tubing with Barrow Fittings and I'm very happy with these fittings and tubing there,other tubing which I would consider is Mayhems UV White or Clear tubing,have used both and they're cheap and will not leach etc,PromoChill tubing or EK DuraClear will starts to yellowing after while and due this I wouldn't touch these tubing there,if yes you will need to replace this tubing sooner than with others

    For coolant have look on Mayhems X1 or their pastel range,with Pastel my temperatures has been better than with EK CryoFuel etc and X1 is very similar to their Pastel range there

    And add GPU waterblock there if you could,it well worth it and what case do you have ?

    Other thing which I would add is get water temperature sensor something like is G1/4 water temperature sensor and if budget allows get Aquaero 5LT I promise this is well worth the investment there

    Hope this helps

    Thanks,Jura
     
  3. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Guest

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    Your setup looks fine, and I'd keep the 1200 RPM fans, to be safe. Just make sure to do a proper leak test - my latest build developed a nasty leak due to a faulty fitting.

    FYI, my current flagship PC is a Ryzen Threadripper 1950X on a custom loop. I'm using a EK Supremacy Evo (Threadripper edition) with dual D5 pumps (dual top), EK CoolStream SE 360 with Corsair AF120 fans (1500 RPM), 10/16 soft tubing and fittings, and a large cylindrical reservoir. I run distributed computing on it around the clock, and it runs dependably at just over 3.4 GHz on all cores (no overclock) at 67 degrees C (Tdie). The only issue I have with my setup is that I also have two RX 580s running full load, which blows hot air towards the radiator - unfortunately my Core P3 case leaves no alternative for rad placement.
     
  4. Belfaborac

    Belfaborac Active Member

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    Thanks guys, much appreciated.

    The case is a Lian Li D8000 with heaps of space and I intend to fit the radiator in the rear, as an exhaust. There are 6 x 120mm Corsair SP intake fans, so internal air flow is plentiful.

    I landed on the Alphacool radiator because of reviews and test results with silent fans, but I'll read up some more before making a final choice.

    The bay reservoir/pump I chose because I'd like it to be accessible and fillable without opening the case. It has no window and ideally I want to fiddle with the insides as little as possible between building it and scrapping it for the next build.

    I'll keep the comments on tubing in mind and see what's available when ordering. As far as cooling liquid goes it depends entirely on what's available locally, as I really want to avoid the cost of having it shipped in from abroad as I'll do with the rest.

    GPU block and fan controller is out of the question, but I'll look into temperature sensors, as I can certainly see the sense in having one of those.

    Thanks again and by all means keep the advice coming.

    Edit: it appears that Alphacool has changed their manufacturing process and that their radiators are now as clean as any others. Still, HW Labs SR2 420MP seems like a nice alternative too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017

  5. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Guest

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    Tubing is not too important, as long as you get the proper fittings (just remember to stick with one size for everything). Also make sure to plan things out ahead of time so you don't run out of components, especially if you want to get angled fittings, extenders, drain ports, quick disconnects and the like (missing a single fitting will really ruin your build day).

    As for coolant, you can mix your own, using distilled water and a bit of biocide (or silver coil), which is probably the cheapest option. You can get custom coolants as well if you want to go that route. Also, try not to mix metals in your loop so as to avoid corrosion.

    For more on water cooling you should check out JayzTwoCents or other tech tubers. Also Google common mistakes or issues with water cooling to get a feel for potential hurdles you might encounter. Always helps to be prepared.

    Anyways, good luck with your build.
     
  6. jura11

    jura11 Guest

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    Hi there

    Regarding the case,I agree this case do have lots of space and radiator support you will see there

    And Alphacool radiators I wouldn't consider these radiators there,HWLabs is better choice and if you are thinking to run at low RPM fans then go with GTS which is optimised for low speed fans and SR2 is more optimised for high speed fans

    For radiators review check this,its probably best website for radiators reviews

    http://www.xtremerigs.net/categories/reviews/water-cooling/radiators/

    and review of yours chosen radiator against the others

    http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/02/10/alphacool-nexxxos-xt45-360mm-radiator-review/5/

    and please check his conclusion and regarding the how dirty radiator has been

    Regarding the SP fans get better fans,have look on Phanteks PH-F120MP or SP fans which are much nicer and quieter fans and push probably same amount of air through the obstruction than SP

    For fans review have look on this website,he usually test all fans on radiators and I trust him with his review

    http://thermalbench.com/

    I personally would have look on Silent Wings 3 or Phanteks PH-F120MP or Corsair ML-120

    With normal reservoir you will be OK as well,you don't need to fiddle etc,you will need sometimes top up that's it and its almost low maintenance

    With tubing I would disagree with @D3M1G0D,if you wish to replace tubing every few months because is yellowing or starting to get cloudy or starts to leach then I wouldn't care which tubing I would use,if you are care about these issues get EK ZMT or Mayhems UV White or their Clear tubing,Mayhems tubing is very cheap and EK ZMT is expensive but is well worth the money

    For coolant just check what is available in yours country,if there is available Mayhems X1 then I would go with this coolant

    These shops in Norway are carrying Mayhems stuff

    https://www.techbay.no/search.html?SEARCH=1&Search_Text=mayhems

    https://www.digitalimpuls.no/pc-komponenter/vannkjøling/tilbehør/mayhem

    Regarding the temperature sensors I would have look on Aquacomputer Temperature sensor,I'm using these two on Rad IN and Rad OUT

    https://www.techbay.no/product.html/aquacomputer-in-line-temperaturfoler?category_id=176

    Hope this helps

    Thanks,Jura
     
    kegastaMmer likes this.
  7. Belfaborac

    Belfaborac Active Member

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    Thanks again guys, the advice is much appreciated!

    I've updated the OP in regards to radiator and tubing. Either one of the SR2 or Nemesis GTR should provide more than ample cooling considering I'm not after extreme overclocking. When it comes to tubing I certainly don't want discolouration or clouding, so EK ZMT it is. The price isn't an issue if the extra cost will let me avoid having to change it, preferably for the duration of the life of the PC (5 years or more is the aim).

    As far as fans go, I'll stick with the NB eLoops due to their acoustics vs air flow performance. That's if I need new fans at all, given that I already have 3 x 140mm Enermax exhaust fans at the moment. I'll give those a go first and see how well they work. I'll also have 3 x 140mm Thermalright fans left over which I could also give a go if the Enermax fans can't cut the mustard. The Corsair SP fans I mentioned are my current intake fans, which will stay where they are.

    Regarding reservoirs I still would like a bay model. The case is huge and being able to top up the reservoir without pulling it out from under the desk, getting into it and putting it back would be a huge boon. Thermalbench (thanks for the link, I hadn't come across it before) also rates the dual bay XSPC D5 highly, so performance ought to be OK. I came across the Watercool Heatkiller Tube 200 D5 though, which also looks good and could easily be mounted on the rear outside of the case for easy access.

    Cooling liquid should be easy, although I see there are numerable pitfalls there too. Better read up some more I guess...

    One more question:

    Are there any symptoms which indicate that it's definitely time to drain the system? I see that manufacturers generally advice draining the system once a year, while on the other hand I see people saying they do so every other year and some even leave it considerably longer. Are there any symptoms which indicate that it's definitely time to drain and/or clean the system?
     
  8. jura11

    jura11 Guest

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    Hi there

    I recommend go with HWLabs without the questions,they're best radiators,they're expensive but worth the extra,other which I would consider are EK XE series which do offer better performance there,these are thick radiators and are more high speed fan orientated,but for low speed GTS420 if you want to run fans at 1200RPM and bellow and run fans only in push or pull

    With tubing I can only recommend EK ZMT,this tubing should last but still after 2-3 years I would recommend to replace or at least check tubing,good to have temperature sensor and keep water under 50C,personally I don't like go beyond 40C on water temperature

    NB eLoops are very good fans if you have them,if not there are bit better fans which I prefer to use for slow speed,just don't forget NB eLoops are not the best in push/pull they can have noise issue,if you will have then have look on some sort of spacer,Enermax fans depends which one you have,these fans I have used on few builds and they are not bad fans,don't use Thermaltake fans,their RGB fans are one poor ba$tard fans but if you are like RGB then get other fans which are better and don't have such issues,check OCN regarding these fans,there are few threads on this there,can you show where are you thinking to put reservoir and where are you thinking put radiator etc,this would be helpful with layout etc

    You don't need to have lots of fans there etc,you want to have good airflow in and out that's it,usually one exhaust fan will should be enough there,if radiator will be set as intake

    If you like the bay model,check few reviews there,Thermalbench is my favourite website for fan test and radiator etc,his tests are pretty much what I need,performance on radiators and not in the open air etc and Watercool Heatkiller Tube 200 D5 is one nice reservoir,which I will be using on friend build,he bought this reservoir and he just waiting on block from Watercool Heatkiller for TR as well,other reservoir which I would check is Monsoon MMRS

    Regarding the coolant or fluid,it will depends there,it will depends on water temperatures,if they will be in low 30's or low 20's(which I think is possible only in very cold weather or with water chiller) under load then you should be OK not to replace or to drain the coolant on frequent basis there,if yours water temperatures under load will be in high 30 or 40 then I would recommend to replace or drain the fluid every 1 or 2 year,you will see on fluid discoloration if needs to be changed or you will see if you are starting to loose performance under load,just one recommendation don't mix metals,you can mix brass or copper or nickel but don't mix these materials with aluminium,they will react in very horrible way and in most cases this will invalidate warranty

    Then there are coolants,I would go with Mayhems X1 or XT1 if you are looking for very long intervals between the draining etc

    I usually drain my system every 6 months,but in my case I'm trying different tubing,blocks plus other coolants etc and due this I changing the coolant so often,draining loop,its easy get drain valve which you can fit on radiator on lowest point of yours loop,if you are need help just let us know,for yours setup I would suggest D5 pump or PWM D5 pump,EK or Aquacomputer are my favourites with Swiftech,stay away from Bitspower mod tops for D5 they have very bad flow and best are EK or Swiftech tops for D5 or DDC

    Hope this helps and good luck matey

    Thanks,Jura
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  9. Belfaborac

    Belfaborac Active Member

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    Thanks a lot mate, I really appreciate it.

    The Thermalright fans are regular TY-14 fans without LEDs or other pointless crap. They're currently mounted on my air cooler (Silver Arrow) and as an exhaust fan, and might do nicely on a radiator.

    I intend to mount the radiator/fans as exhaust rather than intake, so the 6 Corsair intake fans need to stay in order to provide positive air pressure inside the case. They're also cooling my hard drives, so they can't go in any case.

    Anyway, I believe I have sufficient handle on things now to go ahead.

    Fingers crossed.....
     
  10. jura11

    jura11 Guest

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    Hi there

    Aha, you have Thermalright fans then these fans are beast, I used them a lot on my builds,but mainly SQ or square ones TY-143 or TY-147A

    But on Noctua NH-D15 I've run lile TY-143 or TY-147A and both I liked a lot there

    I thought so you are have Thermaltake fans but not Thermalright I just misread and mistyped as well I just realised that

    I have still at home my old Thermalright HR02 Macho BW which I used in my X5670

    These fans have 120mm mounts and you are really want to get their SQ version, they're cheap and very nice fans, TY-143 is 2500RPM fans and TY-143 are in my case same or similar like Noctua A15 in pushing the air through the case filters etc

    If you are thinking ti have radiator as exhaust then you will need to provide the cold air to case and radiator as well,for intake get rather 140mm fans, 2* 140mm fans will push like 3* 120mm fans at same RPM and still 140mm will be quieter and push more air, due this I always recommend have rather 140mm fans as intake or exhausts than 120mm fans on intake and exhaust on cases

    You will see how you get on there

    Hope this helps

    Thanks, Jura
     

  11. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Guest

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    It's your choice, but you normally don't need to top up the reservoir after filling the loop and bleeding it (the water level should remain constant after filling, assuming there are no leaks). The only time you need to refill is after maintenance, but you need to pull out the case then anyways. Cylindrical reservoir can also be refilled easily, depending on the model - mine has three ports at the top.

    I rarely drain the system - the only time I do it is when I take the loop apart to clean the radiator. Generally, you should only drain if you see an issue with the cooling or loop (e.g., high temps, visible discoloration, pollutants inside the reservoir, etc). Regular draining and refilling isn't necessary and will waste an awful lot of coolant (unless you use distilled water and silver coil).
     
  12. Belfaborac

    Belfaborac Active Member

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    Good to hear I won't have to mess around with draining and maintenance too often (provided all goes to plan, of course). The less hassle, the better. I'll think some more on the reservoir before I decide, since that's the case.

    The one thing I'm a bit uncertain of still is how to set it all up for easy drainage. So far I'm thinking I might simply add a T-junction at the lowest point of the loop with a short bit of hose sticking out and a valve on the end. Does that sound workable?

    @jura11: the mounting points for the intake fans only take 120mm fans, or I would have gone for 140mms. However, the internal volume and the air flow through it are so large that the air inside never heats up by more than a few degrees before being exhausted.
     
  13. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Guest

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    Get a drain valve/port fitting, and attach it to the lowest part of the loop. Having it on the reservoir is ideal, since it's usually at the bottom of the loop anyways (look for a reservoir which offers a port for a drain valve). Another option is to use quick disconnect fittings so you can do maintenance on individual components without draining the loop (these fittings tend to be heavy though, which doesn't work too well with soft tubing).
     
  14. Belfaborac

    Belfaborac Active Member

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    The more think about it, the more I think I'll need to scrap the bay reservoir after all. With a rear-mounted radiator and a bay reservoir I won't be able to drain the loop unless I turn the case upside down, so there goes that idea. Oh well, that's what happens when you're a noob I guess.

    Bottom-mounted cylinder reservoir with a drain port it is then.
     
  15. jura11

    jura11 Guest

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    Hi there

    Did you consider go route of the external radiator and reservoir combo something like is Mo-ra3 420mm as radiator and reservoir of yours choice there

    Something like is this

    [​IMG]

    I would use Quick disconnect fittings as above, this should work

    For drainage or drain valve, lowest point of loop is best way to have this done

    Depends where are you thinking to have drain valve, you can put this where is pump or will be pump sitting

    I would put this drain valve on Pump OUT and use Cuboid 3 way valve, I have somewhere picture how I done it and will try to post it

    Hope this helps

    Thanks, Jura
     

  16. Belfaborac

    Belfaborac Active Member

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    I'm glad you've not lost interest yet. :)

    I've certainly had a look at the Mo-ra3, as well as the AquaComputer AquaDuct, but I haven't really got the floor space around the case. Not to mention that I would have to start hoovering regularly, which would be an unwelcome chore.

    So here are my current, updated, thoughts:

    HW Labs SR2 420MP mounted at the rear of the case, where there are 3 x grilles for 140mm fans. Radiator mounted with the ports facing downwards, fans mounted to exhaust air.

    Watercool Heatkiller Tube 150 or 200 D5 mounted on the fans, as seen here (except the pictures show it mounted directly on the radiator).

    This should make for easy drainage from either of the lower ports on the SR2. Also, since there is plenty clearing between the reservoir and fans, the air flow through the radiator should not be noticeably reduced or impeded.

    Finally it would make for a unit that is as compact as possible and minimise the space it takes up inside the case.

    Thoughts?
     
  17. jura11

    jura11 Guest

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    Hi there

    Not lost interest just have few issues with my X99 there...

    Regarding the Mo-ra3 you don't to have close to yours case,you can have this in different room if you wish,just tubing must be in this case longer which shouldn't be issue there and Aquaduct is based on older design and is based on aluminium and not sure how will work with brass or copper radiators or water blocks due this I would rule out this

    Are you sure you will be able fit in yours case 420mm radiator,I would say 360mm radiator is possible to fit and 420mm not sure have looked on this case several times as I planned get one as well as Caselabs over in UK is not available and this case is closest to what I need etc due this I would measure inside the case and measure where radiator will be,with this radiator you will need at least 453mm there

    This Watercool Heatkiller Tube 150 or 200 you should be able fit on fans,this I've saw several times on few builds although not done something as I always trying to build with cases which do have some water cooling support but you will see there,but don't forget to add D5 pump,EK or Aquacomputer are two best one,get with PWM that's what I only add on this

    Yes HWLabs do have lots of ports and you can use unused ports on bottom etc drain valve but there are several ways how to do that easy as well,just depends on more factors there,regarding the reservoir and fans and clearance,there should be enough space but still not sure if this reservoir will not impede airflow which can happen there or airflow will be not reduced but for sure yours reservoir will be cooled properly

    Yes this combo or combination should be compact there that's for sure,just tubing routing will be or can be harder but with right fittings and extensions this should be easy and not hard at all

    Hope this helps

    Thanks,Jura
     
  18. Belfaborac

    Belfaborac Active Member

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    Thanks again mate.

    The SR2 will definitely fit. Easily. In terms of height I have 56cm to play with, while there's an inch of clearing beyond the 3 x 140mm I have fitted before I hit the side panel. On the opposite side there's an ocean of space.

    In regards to the air flow with the reservoir monted on the fans, I have mailed Watercool to ask what they think. Always best to go straight to the source for answers when possible... Judging by the pictures I linked to there appears to be plenty clearing though, so I really can't see it being a problem.

    For the drainage I'm thinking a ball valve on one of the bottom ports, a short length of tube and then another ball valve on the end of that just to be doubly sure.

    You're right, I'll need quite a few fittings and I need to think through the routing, but fortunately I have plenty time. I'm waiting for some more motherboards to launch, as well as the 1900X (it'll be either that or the 1920X, I certainly don't need 16 cores) and I want to read the reviews and forums for a while to be sure any teething problems have been dealt with before I buy and build. The days when I enjoyed being a beta tester are long past, so basically I want to be sure that everything has reached its final state before jumping in.
     
  19. allesclar

    allesclar Ancient Guru

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    Do you have any pictures of this one the forum? I would love to have a look :)
     
  20. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Guest

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    Yeah, take your time. Building a water-cooling loop for the first time is a daunting task, and should not be taken lightly. However, I would advise that you order the parts for the loop in advance in order to do some leak testing. Assemble the loop and fill with distilled water, connect the pump to a PSU, and see if it develops any leaks (if you don't have a usable PSU then order one and use a wire to activate it). You can connect the fans as well to determine the noise level and airflow. It can give you some practice, as well as an idea of how much coolant you will need, and you can test the draining as well.

    As for the system, X399 is a fairly new platform so your decision to wait is a wise one. I don't mind being a beta tester though so I jumped right in, and so far it's performing admirably - I'll let you know if I encounter any issues.

    Sorry, no pictures yet. I'll try to post some later if I have the time.
     

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