First Ryzen Quad Cores Will not Pass 3.2 GHz?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. zer0_c0ol

    zer0_c0ol Ancient Guru

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    [​IMG]

    so much for that one
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  2. Robbo9999

    Robbo9999 Ancient Guru

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    Also some good points. That would be a nightmare if the 4 cores were spanned over 2 CCX's, you've got the increased latency there associated with communication across the 2 CCX - I'm hoping it'll be just 4 cores on one CCX.
     
  3. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Not unless you can get an R3 for $80-120 and an R5 for $160-250.
     
  4. zer0_c0ol

    zer0_c0ol Ancient Guru

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    Guys the 1200 and the 1400 are probably apu line the 1500x 4c/8t CPU clocks @ 3.5/3.7 turbo
     

  5. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I find this way too hard to believe. I'll just take the entire salt shaker.

    Contrary to what people are saying, no, this doesn't make sense, for the following reasons:
    1. I heard the R5 series was getting an increase in frequency, not a lowered speed capped like this.
    2. The concept of "they don't want it outperforming the 1800X" is utter BS. Intel's quad cores readily outperform their 8-cores in gaming benchmarks too, and you don't see them making a fuss about clock speeds. Why should AMD be any different? Your 8c/16t CPU was built for workstations, not gaming. Not sure why people don't understand this.
    3. AMD needs to prove their worth with their architecture. They're not going to sabotage their entire product line because "R5 will take sales away from their most expensive models"; that's ridiculous.
    4. CPUs with fewer cores tend to be easier to overclock for various reasons. Unless the 4-core models are bottom-of-the-barrel parts that are so poorly made that they can't even retain their intended clock speeds, it just doesn't make sense at all why their clocks would be so limited.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  6. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    nope, the APU line is AM4 but based on old core gen, and will be severely weaker (the info is on AMD site and most mother board maker).
     
  7. zer0_c0ol

    zer0_c0ol Ancient Guru

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    Well given that as I posted the Picture of the 1500x clocks from amd own slide i think i am correct, as for am4 apu there is a zen apu line with quad cores..
     
  8. Elder III

    Elder III Ancient Guru

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    I would expect the 4 core Ryzen CPUs to at least match the R 7 line in clocks/frequencies. Even if there is a break off point where egregious amounts of voltage is needed to exceed a certain frequency, I would still expect it to overclock as well as the R7 lineup, if not better.

    It's speculation on my part, but I think if AMD could tweak and revise an R3 or R5 that could OC to 4.5 ghz it would be a very attractive option for those who have gaming as their only real PC usage.... we shall see sometime this Summer season. :banana:
     
  9. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    I wouldn´t be surprised if that happens. AMD is not going to spend millions to ensure that the disabled cores can´t be enabled again and (usually) they don´t laser cut their disabled parts like Nvidia, so i can see come quads turning into hexa cores and some hexa cores turning into full Ryzens!...
     
  10. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    The way the CCX are connected makes it possible for them to check each CCX before it gets fused into an octocore. I wouldn't hold high hopes for the quad parts, they will probably be a single CCX in a package, not two with one CC***935; disabled.

    The six core parts are going to be interesting though.
     

  11. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    I read before that there´s a small possibility of quad cores on two CCX, like 2+2 or 3+1 cores, but i don´t know if this is going to happen.
     
  12. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    I have a feeling that it won't, seeing the potential scheduler troubles.
     
  13. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Fully agree.
     
  14. Amx85

    Amx85 Master Guru

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    :infinity:
    AMD needs its 4c processors get "XFR" between 4.20 and 4.50GHz to show +90% of the performance of i5 7600K/ i7 7700K respectively @half of price :banana:
     
  15. Robbo9999

    Robbo9999 Ancient Guru

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    Assuming you've taken into account ipc differences and clock speeds correctly, then I don't think AMD are gonna achieve 4.2 - 4.5Ghz on their 4 core products, I'd be surprised if they will even overclock that far. My guess is that the 4 core products won't overclock beyond 4.2Ghz for anything 24/7 and sensible. Could still be attractive on price if they place it right.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017

  16. Romulus_ut3

    Romulus_ut3 Master Guru

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    The tweet is aimed at Ryzen 3, the budget tier SKU that's likely to consist of 4 cores and 4 threads.

    AMD has embraced this business policy of "Do more with Quad/Octa Core" for some time now. I suspect this is the only reason they'd probably do this.

    And this is more of a rumor, as Hilbert said, take it with a grain of salt.
     
  17. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    What are you basing these thoughts on? People have reached 5.8GHz on Ryzens so far, so they definitely can go higher than the 4.1 that everyone seems to be stuck on. With fewer cores, cooling and power distribution becomes less of an issue, which allows for a greater chance of overclocking.

    Also remember that the more complex something is, the more likely something is to go wrong. When you're reducing nearly half the transistor count, that's a lot less than can go wrong. I am pretty certain these quad cores will easily exceed 4.2GHz on air coolers.
     
  18. Romulus_ut3

    Romulus_ut3 Master Guru

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    The tweet is aimed at Ryzen 3, not the mid card.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  19. Robbo9999

    Robbo9999 Ancient Guru

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    I'm basing it on the voltage/frequency graphs I've seen of people who have plotted their overclocks on 8 core Ryzen. IIRC beyond 4Ghz (even before then) the voltage required accelerates greatly. I think I remember seeing something like 1.4V required for 4.1Ghz, something like that - so I can't imagine that people would really want to run their CPUs 24/7 at 1.4V+. I'm also expecting that the 4 core Ryzen are going to require a similar amount of voltage for a certain Mhz (maybe slightly less due to the reduced transistor count you mention), so I can't see people overclocking beyond say 4.2Ghz for a 24/7 overclock that's not gonna degrade the chip. It's a hunch & slightly educated guess of mine.

    Yep, I've seen some of the very high overclocks achieved with LN2, but that's not really applicable - I'm talking about 24/7 overclocks that aren't gonna degrade the chip over time.

    EDIT: It was actually 1.4V for about 4Ghz. On this page (post #171): http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=412876&page=7
    But I'm sure I've also found a graph that shows a greater acceleration of voltage, I'll see if I can find it. Either way 1.4V seems like a lot of voltage for 24/7 usage, and that's only 4Ghz.
    EDIT #2: actually that graph on the page I linked above does show the the frequency flattening out quite sharply from about 3.8Ghz, and then continues to flatten, so you can see by that graph that increased voltage at those higher points is having diminishing returns.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  20. icedman

    icedman Maha Guru

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    I would guess these are the CPU's to compete with Intels pentium and low end i3 series in which case even with the lower clock should perform better since those Intel equivalents are dual cores with ht so i don't see the problem.
     

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