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Fallout 76

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by UnrealGaming, May 30, 2018.

  1. IAmGhostDog

    IAmGhostDog Maha Guru

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    Modders can't fix this game.
    No mods until Nov 2019
    Remember?
    Plus it being an online game it would have to be server side.
    They have to fix it.
     
  2. GeoD

    GeoD Maha Guru

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    There are some mods on nexus, not bug fixes as of yet but a bunch of optimization/tweak, reshade, texture and QoL mods like sorting, items tags, lowered weapons and better camera positioning among others (including a few that feel cheat-ish...lockpicking meter, glowing items). Granted mods will certainly be limited until they are official, but modders might be able to fix some things in the interim, who knows...

    Despite all the issues I'm having some fun exploring and questing etc. The world in general provides a large variety of locations and environments, and the crafting system gives purpose to searching the map and completing missions. The emptiness of the world is a weird double edged sword...it plays into the concept of a faction struggle after the bombs fell where people tried to make-do against insurmountable odds which feels right as you explore trying to put the story together. It feels very lonely, but its supposed to....

    All their PR stuff surrounding refunds and the $200 bundle advertising is incompetence at best or apathy at worst. However, the bag controversy seems blown out of proportion to some extent...do some expect the helmet to be actual armor? Beth did advertise canvas so that's what we should get, but if the game were received better and didn't have the plethora of other issues it has then this wouldn't be a thing...

    To me it feels that many players who reviewed it were just pissed that 76 is SP online with some "MP" mixed in without NPCs...if that didn't appeal to you as a fan of the franchise then who did they buy/review it? Just to pile on? One of many reasons game reviews are dodgy at best...no matter the source. I have plenty of highly rated games in my various libraries that I hated and uninstalled. Beth did not do themselves any favors with all the bugs and early-access feel, and this might be the last game of theirs I buy after taking a risk on this unless they really turn things around. That being said, you can have fun in Appalachia if you like crafting, exploring and building. There are plenty of flaws but there is also an ocean of potential.
     
  3. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Ancient Guru

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    There are laws about deceptive advertising. And the bag was deceptively advertised. That is the reason that the bag blew up, they advertised and marketed the bag as canvas. They never notified customers when the bag went from a 10 12 dollar canvas bag to a 2 3 dollar vinyl bag that will fall apart in a few years. They did at some point go back and change their own web page, but every retailer page says the bag is canvas.

    It is a hard and fast fact you can point to and say i want a refund. And bethesda said f off.

    canvas bags more expensive than i thought the cheapest i can find are in the 25 to 30 dollar area many are in the 60 to 120 area.

    So even they went for a cheap canvas bag and it cost 20 to make, the helmet probably around 60, the glow in the dark poster 3, and a steel case 5. The thing cost 200 bucks. they still had a 50% mark up or there abouts on the collectors edition, and if a canvas cost that much more like they could not have afforded it, or adjusted the price if they really did want to squeeze that.

    companies are also required to notify customers when a major change in a product description happens, they never publically notified anyone that the canvas bag changed to a vinyl one, they never gave customers a chance to cancel their orders when that changed, and they generally been total complete aholes when it comes to giving refunds at all.

    So yea the bag thing is a big deal as far as the law and lawsuits are concerned.
     
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  4. GeoD

    GeoD Maha Guru

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    I agree that as far as the law goes they stepped in it big time and should have fixed the advertising or the product, either way its apathy or incompetence in that regard. I do feel that this would be an undercurrent if the game were better though, a blemish rather than another log in the dumpster fire. The whole situation reeks of at least a lack of communication and/or direction. Could be growing pains at the new studio or just Beth being Beth on a new level....I don't know, and what worse is I'm not sure they know either since they have bungled the cover-up more than the crime at this point.
     
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  5. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

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    Welcome to Creation club 76, you fix the game for us and then we charge you for it. Lol
     
  6. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    This is good xD

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    It's also been brought up now that they do have the actual bag.
    https://www.resetera.com/threads/fallout-influencers-given-actual-canvas-76-bags.84327/

    https://gamerant.com/fallout-76-canvas-bags-given-influencers/

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Ah not quite it's a somewhat different designed canvas bag ha ha. Well this is entertaining too.

    Though really a $5 or so bag was too expensive for a 200$ edition where you would normally *expect* premium content? Well the backfire was certain real. :D
     
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  8. SpajdrEX

    SpajdrEX Ancient Guru

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  9. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    I knew someone would. :rolleyes:
     
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  10. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    Didn't get the game but looking at some youtube vids:

    Why are people surprised? Their engine has been a giant turd ever since the first games. It's literally one of the WORST engines ever made imo. What redeemed previous games was that they were purely SP and highly moddable, the community actually fixed a lot of bugs and glitches and added content.

    And what I don't understand is that they have acquired ID Software, which arguably designs one of the BEST engines. Why don't they sort their crap out and let ID Software expand their engine to support all of their games (similar to DICE & Frostbite)?
     

  11. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    After watching this video, it seems apparent that the Creation Engine is not the problem. Instead, it is all the stuff that Bethesda has piled on top of it. My impression is that Bethesda is a great game designer, but not a good software development company. It would probably help them to hire some competent programmers and spend more time on the technical aspects of their games.

     
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  12. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

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    Power armor edition Fallout 76% of advertised items. Lol
     
  13. CalculuS

    CalculuS Ancient Guru

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    People who bash on the creation engine don't seem to think about what it would mean if they dumped the creation engine;

    1. Complete re-education of all developers to a new engine
    2. Invest/buy/create a new engine from the ground up
    3. Port existing mechanics/soundworks/artwork over to the new engine or create them from the ground up

    This would delay all future games by easily 4+ years. Lots of money and risk for Bethesda.

    I can't blame them really, when you stick to something you know for so long its hard to give it up, and I definitely think if they just take the time to polish it they can make something out of it just like Blizzard did with World of Warcraft's engine.

    I think the last 2 fallouts suffered a lot new bugs because they changed a lot of gameplay and action elements which in turn caused a lot of bugs to the old stiff creation engine we were used to, when you mod new vegas with lots of patches and other bugfixes it becomes actually pretty stable.

    Its hard to invest time polishing your engine when you need to poop out a new triple A title every 3-4 years, especially when they make such dramatic changes like the jump from Skyrim to Fallout 4.

    Now that I think of it, they probably tried to polish the engine in the time between skyrim and fallout 4, thats why we got the special edition. And we all bashed on it lol.

    It really is hard, at one point you've got the modder community who are stuck to this old engine patched together like a frankenstein monster and at the other side you've got the players who want a new engine which will in turn completely destroy the existing modding scene.

    I really can't blame them with the engine dilemma.
     
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  14. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

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    Sorry but they have no excuses, not anymore at this point. They have milked the engine for all its worth and then some. As painful as it might be, they should invest in making a new engine, one that they can use in all their future games (see EA and frostbite). I for one would gladly wait more years for that, then to go trough another clusterfuck with Starfield and TESVI.

    If sticking with creation engine for future games was still an option (but a stretch) before Fallout 76 came out, now, after everything, I strongly believe they will consider if it's really worth it.
     
  15. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    Scorched agrees with you.
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    This is a good video.

    It's correct in blaming Bethesda and not the engine for the technical problems, but that's also not entirely fair.

    To elaborate, the engine was designed by introducing a core logic that keeps a record of every object at all times on a cell by cell basis - and with every new engine iteration the cell size is increased to allow more details, effects etc. Now it might seem easy to simply increase cell sizes and have better effects, but the amount of work the engine has to do is nothing short of mammoth. In fact, it also means the amount of data being individually and meticulously tracked increases exponentially. So, to allow detailed environments, complex scripts, interactive NPCs etc. to seamlessly co-exist and interact in a completely logical but natural manner, it takes a massive toll on both the engine and system resources.

    Now, although this record based and cell centred approach might seem cumbersome, it is also obviously where the engine's strength lies. With this approach, nothing is ever missed and the very core of a living, breathing world is being created in a truly realistic way. I mean, there's no way around this approach, because if you want a truly realistic world, you have to follow a similar or equivalent core logic.

    Coming back to the original point, and given the paradox of the seemingly archaic approach the engine uses at its core also being its very strength, Bethesda are having to overdo themselves to keep up with all the additions they must introduce to the engine due to other technical advancements going on around them. With each new iteration requiring updated or revamped effects, animations, textures, rendering techniques, physics implementations. Again, given the engine's core being completely independent and seemingly timeless due to its fundamental simplicity, the engine can use a truly modular approach where the visuals, physics, scripts all work in a bolted on way, expanding and improving within themselves and with the core holding it all together yet struggling with it's own ever increasing self.

    Bethesda are stuck between a rock and a hard place, where they simply cannot constantly implement new features while holding it all together and yet produce something with zero bugs.

    p.s.

    Another good example of the engine's core mechanics can be seen in how every object has an underlying cell structure resembling a polygon like shape called a mesh, with normal maps, textures and specular effects all bolted on top, and each of them being completely independent.

    Interestingly, meshes have become a common file type and carry the .nif extension, which is a reference to net immerse file, i.e. the original name of the engine from the late 80s.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  17. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

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    I will be interested to see how the bag thing pans out because here in the UK you can only officially buy it from Game, and it is actually a criminal offence under the criminal consumer act to fraudulently sell or mislead consumers on what you are selling to them, and that Bethesda admitted that the initial advertising was a lie and it was not going to include the canvas bag from day one will certainly not help them, so anyone that bought one might actually not only get a full refunddbut compensation.
    And game are still advertising it with the canvas bag. Lol
     
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  18. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    They have access to some great engineers and programmers.
    Through id Software, MachineGames and a few other places. I mean, Tiago Sousa at id is beyond fully capable. And while they reached out to id for help with the FPS combat in Fallout 4, they don't reach out to the other studios owned by ZeniMax for engine help.
     
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  19. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    I want Bethesda to have an engine that allows "Inside" and "Outside" to not be separated by a loading screen, they could achieve this with streaming but are they going to actually make any improvement to the engine outside of adding slight lighting changes? no..... they have their work flow and they have no interest in changing it.
     
  20. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Maha Guru

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    Well I guess Bethesda doesn't make good games anymore. Sad, sad days.
     

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