Extreme Flickering with AERO OFF, Card is EVGA 280

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Phil Pendlebury, Jul 4, 2008.

  1. Phil Pendlebury

    Phil Pendlebury Member

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    GPU:
    EVGA GeForce GTX 280 1GB PCIE SC
    Card is EVGA 280 and I have submitted a ticket to EVGA support and nVidia Forum.

    However, I felt this is something that the people here may find interesting.

    I hope it is in the correct section - it may be a driver issue rather than hardware.

    I would like to consider this a bug report really.

    When Vista Aero is NOT ON - Moving certain applications around causes EXTREME flickering. (So bad you can not actually see the screen). A great program to check this with is the EVGA Precision app or CPUZ etc.

    I have tried with latest drivers and slightly older ones too. 177.41 - 177.39

    It also happens badly when playing a track in my digital audio software Cubase.

    Here are some factors which may help you to reproduce this:

    This only happens when the card has throttled down (to 300 or 400 Mhz etc.)
    • My screen is 30" and native resolution is 2560x1600@32 bit
    • I tried lowering the resolution and the flickering went away when at resolution of 1024x800 but obviously I can not use that resolution.
    • As mentioned - This only happens when aero is OFF but I can not use aero as it interferes with the audio ASIO drivers.
    • Aero is also FORCED OFF in some games - Flight Sim X being one which is very important.
    • If I FORCE the Clock rate back to 621 or higher - the flickering goes away even with aero off. But it doesn't last long because the card will soon throttle down again.
    • In 3D games that do NOT allow the card to throttle down there is obviously no flickering.

    I did not have this issue with my GF8800GTX.

    Cheers,

    Phil P.
     
  2. NeoElNino

    NeoElNino Master Guru

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    Interesting issue Phil.

    1. Have you tried the native Nvidia Drivers that are preloaded with Windows Vista? DO you still have the same symptoms when you have Aero Off with these driver?

    2. Have you performed a clean install of the drivers before installing your new 280 card? basically, i mean using Guru 3D Driver Sweeper to remove the remains of ur 8800 drivers...
     
  3. Phil Pendlebury

    Phil Pendlebury Member

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    Hi there,

    I did do a proper install as always. Haven't tried the native drivers yet. Will do.

    There are others having this issue btw. I actually think one of the common denominators is the screen res.

    Thanks for posting up.
     
  4. trippma

    trippma New Member

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    GPU:
    BFG GTX280 OC
    Same issue here.

    First noticed it using VueScan - trust me it's tough to scan if you can't see the image!

    I see it with a bunch of other apps as well.

    I'm running a BFG GTX280, 790i, Vista64 SP1, 4GB, 1920x1200. I've tried drivers 177.35, 177.39, 177.41 all with no luck.

    All other drivers and BIOS' are up to date.

    BFG had me return the card and try a new one. They have since told me they escalated the problem to NVidia - we'll see.

    The problem does not occur when using the generic Vista drivers.

    I never thought to test with AERO on so, Phil, thank you! While I prefer having AERO off at least I can work again! I'll just turn it off when it comes time to play as this issue does not seem to affect anything that actually ramps up the clocks on the card.
     

  5. Phil Pendlebury

    Phil Pendlebury Member

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    Ahh nice to be not alone... If you get any news bud let me know, I will do same of course.
     
  6. Andyr

    Andyr Active Member

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    Hi,

    The problem you are having lies within the Windows Vista Desktop Window Manager. If you have disabled Windows Aero, or have Windows Vista Home Basic, because the Windows Aero has specific functionality in it to reduce and probably eliminate the flickering effevt you are mentioning.

    Unfortunately, it is not a driver issue, and the best way to resolve it, would be to just re-enable the Aero feature if possible.

    Andrew.
     
  7. Phil Pendlebury

    Phil Pendlebury Member

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    EVGA GeForce GTX 280 1GB PCIE SC
    Hi Andyr,

    Thanks for posting back but I'm afraid I disagree with your conclusion slightly.

    If what you say is the case then how come this problem only started with the 280 card. With the (almost equally powerful) GF8800GTX there were no such issue.

    I agree that the problem is the DWM and I know about that quite extensively. In fact I have an article on my site about how to turn off the service (for DAW users):

    http://www.meap.biz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=208

    Which brings me to the answer:

    People should not be required to use aero whether by windows or by nVidia drivers.
    Some people (like myself and many other that I deal with) do not and can not use aero as it negatively affects many aspects of performance.

    I agree that DWM is part of the cause of the issue but it is the way that the drivers interact with DWM that is the problem.

    Therefore - simply blaming DWM and saying you'll have to use it doesn't make any sense. You could equally say the drivers have an issue with DWM.

    Also if you are adamant to blame DWM why does the problem not occur when using default Microsoft drivers?
     
  8. fr33k

    fr33k Ancient Guru

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    its not necessarily the DWM or the drivers.
    my 7900GT had the same problem. The only way i could fix it was by permanently down clocking the memory by 5Mhz.
    did it make any sense whatsoever? nope. Did evga ever fix it? not in the entire time i owned the cards.
    *shrug*
     
  9. Phil Pendlebury

    Phil Pendlebury Member

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    GPU:
    EVGA GeForce GTX 280 1GB PCIE SC
    So fr33k Do you think this is specific to EVGA cards and not just general 280 thing?

    Do you see any such symptoms on the card in your profile EVGA 8800GT?
     
  10. fr33k

    fr33k Ancient Guru

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    not on this card... However, yes i think its an EVGA issue.
    I had 2 cards in SLI, both of which had the same issue.
     

  11. Alcyone

    Alcyone Member Guru

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    GPU:
    ASUS ENGTX280 1GB
    It's not EVGA issue. I have this one with my Asus GTX 280 card. But having Aero ON fixes all this so I don't care that much. It's either DWM or Nvidia sucky vista driver issue.

    BTW, Sounds funny that Aero affects ASIO drivers. I had similar problem with VIA chipset and Delta Audiophile card very very long time ago when VIA had these sucky chipsets. Every transparent window operation caused sound to crackly badly. On Intel chipset machine that didn't happen back then.
     
  12. bthjf12003

    bthjf12003 Member

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    Did have a similar issue a few months ago after moving to Vista Sp1 with 2 x 8800GTS on SLI. If Aero was off, the interface was very unstable with Explorer crashing randomly.
     
  13. Phil Pendlebury

    Phil Pendlebury Member

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    Yes right.

    My system was running sweet as DAW with the 8800. Latency was so low it was unbelievable. (2 - 3Ms loaded with VSTis).

    Now, I have two choices:

    Aero on - raise latency to avoid click and pops.
    Aero off - no clicks and pops but can't see the damn screen cos if the flickering!


    Incidentally this only happens when the card clock rate is throttled down but there is no way to stop it clocking down in 2D mode.
     
  14. Nagasaki

    Nagasaki Banned

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    quick question as goole did not help me out :(

    what a DAW OS??
     
  15. Phil Pendlebury

    Phil Pendlebury Member

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    GPU:
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    Digital
    Audio
    Workstation
    :)
     

  16. Nagasaki

    Nagasaki Banned

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    oohhhhh thanks :D
     
  17. Phil Pendlebury

    Phil Pendlebury Member

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    That's good news btw. At least there's more chance of others seeing and understanding this symptom.

    More people see and understand it - more chance of getting a fix.
     
  18. Alcyone

    Alcyone Member Guru

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    Aye, just report the problem to nvidia vista driver quality assurance program. On the other hand, I would make a separate system for professional audio handling apps. Are those really working well in Vista in general? I would be interested to try Reason 4 in Vista when these M-Audio folks get their Delta drivers out for Vista64.
     
  19. Phil Pendlebury

    Phil Pendlebury Member

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    Alcyone thanks for the post.

    Sorry for being dumb but I have no idea how to contact the nvidia vista driver quality assurance program. Any chance of some pointers?

    Regarding a separate machine; It's simply not necessary. This machine is flying for the production work and flying for gaming. As long as you maintain the machine carefully. (Which I do). Obviously drivers were a problem at first but I fully support Vista now - it's excellent for the job. There is some more info about this at my software site: www.meap.biz Have a look at the Support / Vista section.

    Of course having said that, now with this stupid flickering problem I have a bit of egg on my face LOL. Hopefully new drivers will help me wipe it off.

    Funnily enough the temporary GF8500 I bought for £38.00 has restored my machine to it's former DAW glory. Only problem is a I can't do my flying training now. It simply can''t handle FSX at my native res.

    Cheers,
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  20. G-lad21

    G-lad21 Master Guru

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    i got the same problem for a long time, no solution, replace card as fast as u can
     

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