Exclusive: Upcoming games to support Mantle

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Rich_Guy, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. TimmyP

    TimmyP Master Guru

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    Yeah :bang: The biggest software company in the world is just going to stop developing one of their most important pieces of software.

    Mantle exists because AMD had knowledge of where DirectX was going.

    Features aren't going to be patched in, because they are already going to exist once DX12 is deployed. As to when we see the benefits? Not sure.

    I would put money down on DX12 becoming the next DX9.
     
  2. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    The "Next DX9" will be the lowest common denominator with the largest user base.
    It will therefore be DX11, because a whole load of people are going to stay on Win7.

    The mobile standard is DX9_3, which is as close to DX11 as DX9 can get on mobile.
    DX12 won't be supported by anything for a little while yet.

    See how long it has taken (and is still taking) to get DX11 as standard, and not DX9 in new games...some are still DX9 only!!
     
  3. xIcarus

    xIcarus Master Guru

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    Yeah, I feel happy about mantle for making microsoft move their asses, but I still think it's a sham. Just look at this:
    http://forum.hardwarepal.com/battlefield-4-mantle-vs-directx-image-quality-comparison/

    I cannot place my money on that reviewer. But look at that whole bunch of foliage that's missing. I understand the draw distance was a bug, but if the foliage thing is true, then I've lost a lot of respect towards amd.

    Also that review is 4 months old, maybe they fixed everything. But it's damn disturbing if amd deliberately cut off image quality AGAIN (both amd and nvidia have done this in the past and have been bashed to hell for it).
     
  4. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    The largest userbase for AAA titles are consoles. Xbox will support DX12 and Microsoft will be pushing it heavily to close the performance gap between the Xbox One & PS4. All DX11 hardware is compatible with DX12 titles for the majority of features.
     

  5. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Ah yes, you are right. NvAPI is in BF3 /4(?), not GW.
    NvAPI is a perf. library, while GW is a content package bringing visual bells and whistles, amirite
     
  6. kd7

    kd7 Member Guru

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    So many things wrong with this sentence....
    DX12 for XB1 is just a marketing ploy.
    Yes, they will put a DX12 logo on a future XB1 update but that is all the "DX12" the XB1 is going to have.

    The consoles use their own APIs which are tailored to their specific architecture and there is no way in hell that XB1 will use DX12 or Mantle or any other API over what they already have, unless they want to cripple XB1 even more which doesn't make sense.

    With that said, there might be some common calls that will make porting easier but it is next to impossible that XB1 will use the same "DX12" that will come to PCs unless MS wants DX12 to work only on AMD APUs.
     
  7. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    My opinion is it prob hot air from AMD and if it comes will be x months later...

    But I hope it comes sooner for the peeps with AMD cards...
     
  8. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    Freaking entertaining thread. Cookies for everyone.
     
  9. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Wat.

    Did you even watch the development conference?
     
  10. kd7

    kd7 Member Guru

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    Yes, big fat DX12 logo next to the XB1.

    I still think it's a marketing ploy, there will be a XB1 DX12 version which will be distinct from the PC version and basically the same with what they are already using. What will happen is that DX12 will share some features/calls with their current XB1 API and in fact this is where DX12 is based upon, not the other way around. But there is NO WAY that PC DX12 and XB1 DX12 will be the same and if for some insane reason they are then XB1 will become even less powerful compared to PS4 OR it will be very poorly optimised for nvidia gpus, a scenario which is even more absurd.

    What you are talking about is an impossibility (in a sane world).
     

  11. kd7

    kd7 Member Guru

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    There is of course a third scenario. XB1 gets DX12 support and there is no difference between XB1 DX12 and PC DX12 BUT they also keep their current low level API.

    This will allow XB1 owners to play ALL DX12 games that are released on PC without the need for porting, but the games that were supposed to be released on XB1 anyway will be using the optimised low level API XB1 currently has. The advantage to PS4 is not that DX12 will make XB1 faster (on the contrary) but it will allow XB1 to have more games that were never supposed to be released on the XB1. But in a scenario where the same game is released in PS4 and XB1 but in XB1 it uses DX12 then it would be much faster on PS4, more than it would have been if the game used the optimised XB1 API.

    I hope this makes sense :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  12. AbjectBlitz

    AbjectBlitz Ancient Guru

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    There was a bug with the sky that was fixed ages ago, not sure what is going on with that foliage here and I would guess that is the problem of that reviewer as I have never noticed any difference in mantle.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  13. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    No it doesn't make sense.

    What I'm talking about is already done by OpenGL. OpenGL allows various hardware OEM's to provide extensions that directly support their architecture. In same cases these extensions provide far lower level support and optimization then what is seen via DX.

    DirectX is more than capable of replicating this while providing general libraries by working with OEM's to create stricter hardware standards. Something they've already been doing for a while now. GCN, Fermi+ and Intel Generation 7+ are all very similar architecturally.

    Now you state that XboxOne uses a low level optimized API specific to the console, which is semi-true. It uses a modified version of DX11 with console additions that provide low level support. They specifically stated at GDC that DX12 will be providing a number of updated features, more specifically, catered to CPU overhead reduction in consoles. Which given the nature of the CPU in current generation consoles should provide increased performance. The console additions specific to that generation of GPU can still be added on top of those platform enhancements. It's not like Microsoft rewrote a graphics API specifically for the Xbox One, they simply added stuff too it to provide lower level access.

    These additions are coming to future hardware and that's the crux of what DX12 is providing. They are removing the higher level abstraction and focusing on low level extensions for each type of hardware architecture.

    There is absolutely zero reason that DX12 can't provide low level GPU support for both Nvidia and AMD, equivalent to what you get in consoles. Especially since, as I said, the need for higher level abstraction is gone since all the GPU architectures are essentially converging towards a single design.
     
  14. kd7

    kd7 Member Guru

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    Dude, the consoles already have low overhead APIs. Sure they can optimise even more, but to say that the consoles will have low cpu overhead or close to the metal features because of DX12 is just ignorance.

    DX12 will absolutely provide low level support for nvidia and amd, but it will not be equivalent to the consoles, it will be analogous.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  15. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Yeah Microsoft obviously just gave a bunch of examples and listed a bunch of features to trick the people that are going to be developing on their sdk in a year. Right.
     

  16. kd7

    kd7 Member Guru

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    You are obviously in denial:)

    Read again the scenarios I posted earlier, there are no other possibilities.
    Summary:

    1. XB1 DX12 is different than PC DX12 but made easier to port from one to the other -> mostly marketing ploy which might be accompanied also by some optimisations that they were planning to do anyway and they just stick a DX12 logo to it

    2. XB1 DX12 and PC DX12 are identical and there is no other XB1 API -> They might as well burn their XB1 division down

    3. XB1 gets DX12 support but retains their current API -> best of both worlds and in my humble opinion a likely scenario

    -------

    DX12 low cpu overhead and close to the metal features are based on the current XB1 low cpu overhead and close to the metal API, not the other way around.
     
  17. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I originally said that Microsoft is going to push DX12 heavily because one of it's advantages is that it's going to provide improvements in performance to close the gap between Xbox and PS4.

    You said that statement is wrong.

    Then you literally just post that they are going to be providing optimizations that they were planning to do anyway. Oh ok. So because they were planning them anyway or something and they are just labeling them DX12 I'm wrong.

    Obviously DX12 is going to have a significantly larger impact on PC gaming. Not once did I dispute this. Obviously console developers already have low level access to consoles, again not once did I dispute this.

    What I said is that DX12 is improving on all these factors -- which again if you watched the conference you would agree with. They talked about how the multithreading improvements and other changes are are going to effect performance on the xbox.

    So how again was I wrong originally?
     
  18. kd7

    kd7 Member Guru

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    Yes. DX12 improvements are based on the current XB1 API. Now if that API is further improved it is an entirely different thing.

    If XB1 DX12 is the same as PC DX12 then DX12 will NOT bring any performance improvements for XB1, on the contrary XB1 performance will be even worse than it is now compared to PS4 (but it will expand the range of available games for XB1).
    If XB1 DX12 is different than PC DX12, then it is just (or mostly) marketing, they could call it "Bob" and it would still be the same.
    Obviously, MS will keep their current API since they need to support the already released games and because no generic API no matter how low level can ever be as fast as an XB1 SPECIFIC API AND they will add support for DX12 which is very likely to be the same as the PC version and thus expand the range of available games for XB1.
     
  19. undeadpolice

    undeadpolice Master Guru

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    ROFL Look at the Butthurt fanboys raging at me, Epic losers.
     
  20. undeadpolice

    undeadpolice Master Guru

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    You mad? did you read the whole thing? I simply playing along with haters. Any Problem with that?

    You think you are mature, but in reality you are not.
    Real Maturity would just pretend he didn't see it or hear it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014

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