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Ex Valve Developer Lashes out about Steam "Steam Killing PC Gaming"

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Angry fired guy has axe to grind.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/valve/comments/8zmp07/former_valve_employee_tweets_his_experience_at/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/valve/comm...ve_employee_tweets_his_experience_at/e2m8jtw/

     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  3. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    I agree that steam needs to be tackled.
    I do not see "AAA games" turning over to Epic and leaving steam with "indie/2ndtief/shovelware/porn", I more think that's what he wants to see, but this ain't happening.

    I don't agree that Epic is going to save anybody... games cost just the same for the consumers, so that 30% tax now only stays in a different pocket, it is NOT saved and does NOT help PC gaming besides cutting down on the risk of financing a game.
    So... it helps devs, maybe, and that's a big maybe. It helps publishers, a lot. But other than that, a lower cut does nothing for the industry. And that superficial way of seeing it is what makes me upset about Epic's side, or most people trying to defend them.

    All in all, 2/3 of those tweets are rubbish imho. If I miss to see the bigger picture here, feel free to educate me on how exactly Epic is saving anything, let alone PC gaming.

    And now everybody defending Epic, please come in, your type is asked.
     
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  4. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    I agree with his tweets. valve's dominance has been too much these years.
     
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  5. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Eh? This was a known fact for a long time.
     
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  6. cryohellinc

    cryohellinc Ancient Guru

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    What always baffles me is the army of fanboys that defends one platform over another. I agree to all those tweets, as they make perfect sense.
    From a consumer standpoint, the more platforms we have will result in competition and as a result, this only provides benefits to the end customer.

    Hell, already we see a significant change on the market following actions of Epic, yes they have some shady practices as of right now, but still - some great titles are coming to PC which for years gamers could only hope for.

    Monopoly is never good for the end customer.
     
  7. gx-x

    gx-x Maha Guru

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    They are always welcome to go back to retail. Printing disks, boxes, manuals...making disks, boxes, commercial material for promotions and pay % to retail stores. Ah, they can always make their own digital distro platform too and pay 0% to Steam or anyone else. Basically it's easy, just don't use copy protection and torrenting will do it for you, for free. :D

    Yes, after reading the above, I can now see how Steam is killing gaming. Makes perfect sense :D 50% + all that I have described, made perfect sense, hence it died out.

    PS. If Steam had monopoly it would have faced monopoly charges in court because it's illegal. This means that Steam does not have monopoly on whatever you think they have monopoly on.
     
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  8. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Should be noted that Epic already takes 5% from UE games, so their store is just additional cash for them. And of one makes UE game and releases on Epic store, they are not far away from Steam. (Even while now they do not ask those 5% if you are on their store.)
    On other hand, Steam may be taking considerably big chunk of possible revenue from game developer, but will Epic allow for all those "borderline trashy" and small games which sell for $0.99 or less?

    I do not think steam is killing those games, I think that steam is enabling them to be even seen and have reliable distribution platform.

    Sure, it sucks for AAA studios who make billions like Call of Duty every year. Or does it? Effort put into many of those AAA games is so small that I for long time do not pre-order and often even not buy when they are deeply discounted.

    What is current common AAA game strategy for making money out of no work? Season pass enabling faster progression and exclusive re-skins.
    DLC re-hashed content from older installment. (But then, there are tiers and studios selling a lot end up giving steam only 20%.)
    = = = =

    If I was to release game on my own, I would be F*ing lost. Doing it with steam would be well worth them eating that portion even if it meant that after all the taxes I would get only 40% from actual revenue.

    From my point of view, smaller you are, better the steam is for you.
    = = = =

    So, worst case scenario for someone is to use game engine, pay for it (5% for UE), then release on steam with small revenue... losing 35%. While doing same with Epic would mean losing only 12% as one does nothave to pay for Unreal Engine itself in Epic Store.
    Then there is opposite scenario, one uses other than Unreal Engine and pays total ~17% with Epic, while big revenue grants 20% with steam.

    One has to make choices. If game is built on Unreal Engine, choice may be quite understandable.
    Of one does use anything else, then Steam is not bad choice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  9. d0X

    d0X Member Guru

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    IMHO people are just too used to Steam and they want all their games in one application out of laziness and practicality. I like the competition in everything, it can only make the end product cheaper and/or better. And the fantards of anything are just that, tards.
     
  10. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Might I ask what change we see on the market right now? As a consumer I fail to see one but more fractured offerings and another launcher to install (and I don't want to talk about features of either here).
    What has changed since Epic launched exclusive deals? Really, please help me understand @cryohellinc , I don't see ANYTHING different as of now.
     
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  11. beedoo

    beedoo New Member

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    Frankly, Steam is ruining my gaming experience as I refuse to be a part of it.

    I suppose I'd be considered an older gamer now, and the last time I 'looked' at steam it had community stuff, special offers and buckets of stuff I'm just not interested in.

    Because of Steam, the only games I've bought in recent times are Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online (exactly - not on Steam). Prior to that, Bioshock and TombRaider - which I bought, then refused to play once I found they required a Steam account.

    I'm all for downloading a digital version OR having a boxed DVD etc., but I don't want a third party (framework) requiring me to log in for single player games - even if they have an off-line mode.

    Shame, as I have plenty of disposable income to spend on games - I just don't bother anymore.
     
  12. lmimmfn

    lmimmfn Ancient Guru

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    Guy comes across as having an axe to grind or looking for a job at Epic.

    At the end of the day Epic store benefits me as a consumer how? Exactly there are no benefits, not only that as there are no key resellers it's more expensive.

    I have 0 interest in the devs/publishers getting a bigger cut, they already make billions, I care about me :)
     
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  13. cryohellinc

    cryohellinc Ancient Guru

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    Well from my standpoint, Epics smaller cut for game devs is a game changer for a lot of them. When they disregard public opinion in pursuit of extra profit and jump platform - that is a clear example of that.

    Additionally, as I've mentioned some titles which previously were only on Consoles, and rigorously defended their exclusivity now change their mind and jump to PC.

    Epic has lower prices, Steam will soon cut their "share" that they want from each purchase, as of right now they are bleeding titles. Good for the whole market, that's the change I'm talking about.
     
  14. FrostNixon

    FrostNixon Member Guru

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    Tell me about it. One of the reasons I would never play an Ubisoft game again, first launch steam, launch the Ubisoft game, which launches Uplay and forces you to log in there...
    Having just steam is what I'm used to since I've played CS for many years now, but having multiple launchers with more and more every year, yeap that I don't like.

    I don't think his opinion sounds that unreasonable if you ignore the tone. We already know that Valve are a bit strange compared to the rest of the software industry just by looking at their game development policies. They have roughly 400 employees which is less than 10% of the manpower of other large studios and yet all that profit and in the end they refuse to hire more people to improve their games - Artifact died before it began, CSGO has been in community maintenance for the past 6 years, dota2 is getting complaints after complaints and dropping player counts and HL3 is just a meme now. Also the famous policy "no one has a dedicated product in valve, they work on whatever they find pleasing", like come on...
    Sure everyone jumping on EPIC does it so they can get more for themselves and not for the customers, but I think that's a whole different topic.
     
  15. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    In topic about another additional deployment framework like Epic's, you really add no other value than saying that you do not want them either.

    Therefore your singling out steam here is rather undeserving since you dislike all of them.
     
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  16. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    More competition means price wars. The times are long gone when game keys were super cheap , even key stores take a large margin now. It would be nice to bring back pricing to the old levels. maybe valve will have steam deals again which are interesting, instead of the same old rehash time after time again. :D
     
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  17. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    This guy has a point regarding some of Valve´s practices but saying that Valve is killing PC gaming is silly at least. Yes the 30% is too much, just like the 30% Sony/MS/Apple and others demand, but they were accepted by everyone on the beginning when they needed Steam and they have been lazy and complacent in the last years but it´s not their fault that most AAA games are garbage...
    As for Epics, having more competition is good but not the way they are doing by locking games as exclusives to their platform, that´s just sleazy...
    How i miss the days of buying a game and installing it on my PC without having to use Steam or whatever to play it...
     
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  18. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    I don't think AAA game development has become cheaper. It has become more expensive. More high quality models and textures needed, more details in the maps, more voice acting, more special effects, more complicated MP functionality, fancier cutscenes, motion capture, etc. A game needs more developers, requiring more money invested. So, if the selling platform takes less and leaves more for the developer, it helps as the game prices cannot be raised recklessly (because Intel is not in the game making business, thankfully). I have no idea how the sales numbers have developed for big games. There might be more buyers, but the market is also probably more fragmented with more competition. Also, China bans games randomly, so it's a lottery win to get any sales from that giant market.
     
  19. slyphnier

    slyphnier Master Guru

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    alll of things is business
    people want to make more money

    steam at the moment top of pc-game platform
    even at 30% rate, many game developer probably feel fine due to sales the can get by putting their games on steam

    for epic to get interest of course cannot put 30%, not even 20% will make game-company jumping out instantly to epic

    also by the time epic replacing steam in future , its possible epic will increase their rate
    so again its all business like usual
     
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  20. Rx4speed

    Rx4speed Active Member

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    I don't get the blind customer loyalty to Steam. Game dev's/publishers are businesses and saving 10-20% of straight profit can not be ignored. If you ignore that, you should be fired. Many times there are more people playing Fornite thru the Epic store than people playing any games in the entire Steam library. Let that sink in for a second. There is nothing superficial about this. It's money. If you don't like it, don't spend your money there. Crying like a girl about it will gain nothing.

    Lastly, I agree with Richard, cry all you want, Steam's glory days are OVER. No one will launch triple A games on Steam unless their fees reduce. They will eventually be a 2nd tier/indy/porn site. Watch.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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