EU Plot to scrap Britan ?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Palerider, May 4, 2012.

  1. Sash

    Sash Ancient Guru

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    sorry i was sarcastic, of course Sarkozy will win today (hence new president) because of his natinalistic mentality, french people like that, along with other europe countries it seems its a trend nowadays
     
  2. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    I wouldn't be so sure about Sarkozy, He might lose.

    We will know soon enough and I hope he loses too. I just hope hollande is able to negotiate and not destroy Europe.
     
  3. tweakpower

    tweakpower Banned

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    Well guys, there is a rule about political topics on this forum, I'm not sure if we broke it :).

    I want to say something to all of you, EU as organisation is something beautiful and beneficial to all it's members, and with that system on paper i would agree. Truth is a bit different, i doubt UK will lose anything if goes out of EU (because geo-strategic position), it can only gain (because it don't need to follow strict rules of unelected EU parlament) in mine opinion. It is very complicated topic, and reasons why UK can't lose anything no matter if goes away from EU or stay in it. Only benefit out of EU will be (i assume) to people that actually live in UK.

    Truth is, European Union is a great system on paper, but with current people and policits behind it, it's not beneficial to "ordinary people", while is very beneficial to corporations and their interests. Also leaders of EU and US have consensus about politics an common interests, and their moral is "broken" (softly said), they produce wars all around the globe for oil, other natural resorces etc..., and you (if you live in EU) also benefit some small part from that. Now if you can live with that on mind, then support EU and global rules, but remember, part of you will always have one dot of blood on hands.

    Those are just facts, you can always refuse them as nonsense, it is your choice ;).
     
  4. tuco

    tuco Ancient Guru

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    we have a currency, and its better than the euro. any country should have access to markets providing it complies with a few human rights etc. personally I dont see why we should be bailing out those who cant organise their own tax/pension/benefits system's. think us brits agree with the germans on that one at least.

    how much money has malta had from the eu btw? close to 1 billion in 10 years. lol
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2012

  5. morbias

    morbias Don TazeMeBro Staff Member

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    The UK government opted out because the EU should not be allowed to enforce legislation on our banking system when we are not even part of the Euro. GBP is and always has been a stronger currency than the EUR, no reason to expect that to suddenly change.
     
  6. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    How can one have a better currency?

    Would you say the GBP is weaker then the USD even if the US dollar is has a lower conversion rate then the Euro?

    Very outlandish comment.

    Second line is even more out there. If the UK was not within the EU system then there would be a barrier between the markets making trade more difficult. A fact which is incontestable.

    The break up of the Euro would cost way too much for you guys too and acting all nationalistic is not going to help much. The UK's economic fundamentals are not exactly solid; high public debt (higher then spains), high deficits (also higher then spains) and in recession.

    The only reason the UK can run such deficits and not worry too much is because the central bank can act as lender of last resort (the ECB cannot) and the currency is not directly effected by Greece.

    Is the last line is some sort of provocation? damn right my country is a net beneficiary from the EU system. The purchasing power and economy is not as developed as other more rich European countries. Given the ideals behind Europe which include solidarity and increasing development I do not find it scandalous that we get aid. The last thing I expected is a citizen from the UK is to give me attitude considering how your colonial government made sure that nothing bar military installations were developed to the detriment of the people, responsible for the above mentioned gap.
     
  7. tuco

    tuco Ancient Guru

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    last point may have been rash, no offence meant (although being a citizen of the uk does not mean we cant have a diff opionion or be rude sometimes, thats just a stereotype. I may not be born here either.) I'd say that the US was stronger than the UK pound though. the debts we take are working for us, the interest is far lower and managed over a longer period than other euro countries. as it stands atm the euro currency is teetering on the edge, and until countries like spain/portugal/italy manage their economies better, there is no question of the uk joining the euro, who would if it would undermine an already winning formula?

    yes the uk benefits with its euro friends, getting better rates/rules etc over non eu countries like the us or china. so it should do, it has skills and resourses that other eu contries benefit from. i dont want to sail off into the distance, where the grass appears to be greener, but its hard enough getting your voice heard in the uk, never mind giving more and more executive powers away.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2012
  8. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    UK has better interest rates then most EU countries and that is a fact. What I am trying to get across is why the UK has much better interest rates which is the bank of England. The bank just prints more money acting as the lender of last resort; this in turn increases inflation.

    Britain is of the opinion (and correctly so) that central banks must play a larger role in the economy and that the ECB should be allowed to act as the lender of last resort, they view also is that Euro-bonds are the way forward.

    The problem is that when faced between shaping up a fiscal compact where most EU members wanted to include controls on banks (Cameron being friendly with the city) he just packed up and left leaving the Germans and French free to implement the German plan.

    Right now the EU is in one of those historical moments where things either break or move in the right direction. With Cameron's decision to ditch the fiscal compact talks and embrace his Euroscepticism all he has done is make British government isolated and excluded.
     
  9. tuco

    tuco Ancient Guru

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    now that is bad.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2012
  10. Risco

    Risco Master Guru

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    The Germans have been trying to conquer and rule Europe via politics ever since they lost the war.
     

  11. Sash

    Sash Ancient Guru

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    ups, apparently, i was wrong
     
  12. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    Yeah.

    Expect markets to tumble this morning though however I think in the long run he might be beneficial to the whole situation.

    It is very bad because at a very high European level we are missing the input of British government. If it wasn't for Italy prime ministers insistence that Britain be an "observer" to the talks there would have been zero British input.

    Input which is extremely valuable considering British history of promoting trade as opposed to the Germans which are historically obsessed about inflation.

    That's petty populism right there. The Germans aren't monsters and I get the attitude the German voter has towards other countries.

    They were the only European country to realise the necessary labour and structural reforms early while others were spending like crazy and cooking the books (bad Greece). The problem is the German politicians which do not explain the crisis properly and how the Germans are partly responsible for the disaster.

    They were one of the first countries to break the 3% rule making the rule useless.
     
  13. cartdog

    cartdog Ancient Guru

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    I dont know why people are so swept up in politics. Just watching everyone in france going phyco because of its new president, believing that this will bring the change they want. Every time its just the same repeat, when are people going to realise that democracy and politics are well dead, theres no man made rulership that will bring about a better life for all. Its been tryed for thousands of years and continues to fail.
     
  14. Black_ice_Spain

    Black_ice_Spain Ancient Guru

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    in spain they can, but they wont, we have like 3x amount of politics than other (and bigger) countries, all with their "official car"..., if only a president could remove all that crap under him....
     
  15. Mikedogg

    Mikedogg Banned

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    All valid points. But it seems to me that "Politics" dictates the way we live; and effectively "The Rule of Law".

    Given the world is more "Topsy Turvy" these days, it is really important to learn those two things, so you know where you stand if the worst were to happen.

    I hate Politics as much as the next person, bit I feel one day I will need to know it (call me paranoid lol).
     

  16. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    The reason these particular elections are important are due to the current situation.

    Democracy is also not dead.
     
  17. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I definitely not dead, but depending upon where you are it's sure as **** rigged.
     
  18. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    Its the political class which can be crappy. If a country has strong controls on party financing and a good electoral system then its pretty OK.
     
  19. cartdog

    cartdog Ancient Guru

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    Now when I say democracy is dead, I dont mean that civil rights and human rights are dead in democeatic states, but rather what democracy stands for, rulership by people or persons. Ever form of rulership has not worked in eliminating the perils if our day or past days, so in this sense, democracy has ran its course. I heard a statment from a OWS member, who said, they dont want politions, they themselves want to govern there own lives. Dangerous thinking that is. At the end of the day, having a political system does offer certain securities ie: police, medical etc, things that provide a measure of stability.
     
  20. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    Last edited: May 9, 2012

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