EU Fines ASUS, Philips, Pioneer, Denon & Marantz $130M for Price Fixing

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

    Messages:
    40,030
    Likes Received:
    8,705
    GPU:
    AMD | NVIDIA
    fantaskarsef likes this.
  2. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,056
    Likes Received:
    4,140
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    I'm just waiting for somebody to come around and curse the EU because they think that fine's the reason they'll have to pay more for next year's product.

    Seems that there's maybe something missing at the bottom of the op, it just has a headline "Whistleblower Tool" but no text below it.
     
    Neo Cyrus likes this.
  3. eTheBlack

    eTheBlack Active Member

    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    14
    GPU:
    GigaByte R9 280X W3X OC
    Did you even read? All 4 cooperated with EU, so obviously they were guilty. They increase next year product, then smaller companies will be more visible.
     
  4. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,126
    Likes Received:
    1,367
    GPU:
    2 x GeForce 1080 Ti
    Not likely. They're not US companies.
     
    fantaskarsef likes this.

  5. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,056
    Likes Received:
    4,140
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    Where did I say they were not guilty? I didn't say that.
    Yes I read that about cooperation, I'm just wondering why Pioneer got 50% discount, the others 40%.
    Where did I say they were not increasing next year's product's price? I didn't say that.
    Your last sentence is quite vague and I can only guess what you're referring to. But honestly, just because next year's headphones or mainboard or refrigerator are 5-15€ more, you won't notice any smaller companies... people, the market of capitalism, don't work that way. If so we would have seen many many smaller companies already, and we wouldn't be discussing Asus, MSI, Gigabyte mainboards here but other companies'.
     
  6. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,525
    Likes Received:
    725
    GPU:
    RX 580 ❤ MESA 20.3
    I always know there was something fishy about Asus monitors.
     
  7. GlennB

    GlennB Master Guru

    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    80
    GPU:
    Sapphire Vega 56 EK
    Usually the first one stepping forward gets the extra discount.

    The biggest problem with these fines is that the consumer does not see anything other then companies raising prices again. Denon, Marantz and Pioneer already kinda sell audio stuff in a affordable price range and i doubt that smaller companies will be able to offer something similar for the price.

    Lack of competition/innovation really. The panel Asus used for their MG279Q has also been in an Acer and iiyama model and we have been stuck with this panel for at least 3 years now resulting in the price not going down.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  8. tunejunky

    tunejunky Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    425
    GPU:
    RadeonVII RTX 2070
    as a former long-term employee (25 years) of one of these companies, i call B.S. on the E.U.

    1) all of these companies had every previous distribution channel ruined by the internet, but they adapted.

    2) this ruling favors the "grey market" and creates logistical nightmares for warranties and service.

    3) third party and unlicensed dealers (the grey market) with no expertise can now sell anything from anybody to anyone in the E.U. and that's a Bad Thing to anyone who has any questions or needs help.

    4) every dealer is vetted and authorized by the companies involved for sales and returns of defective product. good luck trying to get warranty service from an unauthorized dealer.

    5) this ruling crushes "brick and mortar" shops. why shouldn't authorized and trained dealers get a just return on their time and money?

    6) in the U.S. (except California) there is NO warranty for unauthorized goods. grey market dealers (a la Costco) have to eat or fix the product themselves or deal with unhappy customers... but those repairs may not be authorized either and may not be able to get parts.
     
    Herem likes this.
  9. tunejunky

    tunejunky Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    425
    GPU:
    RadeonVII RTX 2070
    smaller companies? ROTFLMAO
    dude you have no idea of the realities of consumer electronics.
     
  10. Pimpiklem

    Pimpiklem Member Guru

    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    49
    GPU:
    amd
    Tell the EU to take a run and jump.
    who do they think they are.they are 17% of the world market so tell them to stick the fine.
    They think they're bigger than they actually are.

    So glad brexit won i do not want to be associated with these clowns.

    [​IMG]
     
    Herem likes this.

  11. airbud7

    airbud7 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,835
    Likes Received:
    4,744
    GPU:
    pny gtx 1060 xlr8
    so the government profits with no restitution to the consumer... is that what I just read?
     
  12. Icanium

    Icanium Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,557
    Likes Received:
    91
    GPU:
    MSI GTX1080ti GamX
    Did you also read.

    "Action for damages
    Any person or company affected by anti-competitive behaviour as described in these cases may bring the matter before the courts of the Member States and seek damages."
     
  13. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,371
    Likes Received:
    3,109
    GPU:
    5700XT+AW@240Hz
    Actually this is kind of intervention which makes sense. Price Fixing by means of extortion for sake of making more money is bad behavior.
    In contrast Google attempted to enforce feature set for sake of control over Quality of THEIR OWN PRODUCT. Which comes for free on top of that. And no manufacturer is forced to use it!

    I think that's why very few will go against EU decision here.
     
  14. southamptonfc

    southamptonfc Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,876
    Likes Received:
    97
    GPU:
    STRIX 2080 Super
    Since 1980, with the rise of the BRICS etc, the total world economic output (GDP) has gone up ~6000%. So to only lose 8% of your share in that time is pretty good going!

    Put another way, that means EU's GDP has risen by about ~5300% in that time.

    http://www.multpl.com/world-gdp/table/by-year
     
  15. scatman839

    scatman839 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    14,119
    Likes Received:
    519
    GPU:
    1080, KD55XD800
    Yes but that doesnt agree with his point of using that graph to mislead people though, I assume he'll come back and say you're wrong
     

  16. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,056
    Likes Received:
    4,140
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    1. Too bad the internet changed things for those companies. I'm sure the hit must have been immense. In comparison to many, many more companies that actually died because of this technological advancement.
    2. Maybe. But honestly, as a consumer, I don't buy stuff from somebody that's not a retailer and expect any warranty. Maybe you can go into detail on this so I understand what you meant please?
    3. Have you been to any of those mentioned "brick and mortar" shops? Usually questions and needs are answered by the salesman trying to get you to buy the most expensive product because he gets a cut. THAT'S what's happening if you are going and asking somebody in a "offline" store.
    4. See 2.
    5. I'm afraid I don't understand what changes for those shops after this court's ruling. Please elaborate and help me understand.
    6. Which leads me to 2. and 4. again, if you're buying from unauthorized dealers, you have to deal with the consequences as a consumer. If they can't exchange or fix the product, you get your money back, right?

    So please help me understand your position since you've been working there. I honestly have issues seeing your point of view, but I'd like to understand.


    Just like when the US government fines a company. Or did you ever receive a check saying "because we fined a company" from the government? :D
     
    airbud7 likes this.
  17. southamptonfc

    southamptonfc Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,876
    Likes Received:
    97
    GPU:
    STRIX 2080 Super
    What's the alternative though? Condone or allow price fixing?

    Yes it may favor the grey market but I want to live in a place with a free market! I'm capable of making an informed choice about where to buy things based on customer service, how likely it is I will need to return it, how much the item costs etc. Believe it or not, I will pay slightly more for better after-sales support if needed.

    3) As long as you buy from within UK, by law we get 7 days to return the item, no questions asked.
    6) Doesn't really concern the EU.

    I agree the death of the high st is not a great thing but allowing companies to fix prices is anti-competitive and will certainly lead to abuse.
     
    fantaskarsef likes this.
  18. craycray

    craycray Member Guru

    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    36
    GPU:
    3080 Gaming X Trio
    I would say eff off. But then I would like to be polite and say eff off. Or even a more politer eff off.

    25 years and still a shill.

    Are you still mad about blockbuster dying due to Netflix?
    Or maybe AirBnB effecting hotel industry.
    Or maybe all the cabbies complaining about Uber.

    They all killed themselves by being stubborn, and so did the brick and mortar stores. Only the businesses that listen to customers' needs and adapt, survive.
     
  19. tunejunky

    tunejunky Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    425
    GPU:
    RadeonVII RTX 2070

    wow... a "shill"? i have opinions on those who go out of their way to insult people too.

    i'm well used to ignorant people talking out of their hindquarters on subjects they know nothing of.

    these companies have adapted, my concerns are for the dealers and consumers as each of these companies are backed by keiretsu (excepting Phillips) so they aren't going anywhere.

    a dealer for each of these brands must pass exhaustive vetting - you cannot just order stock. the character as well as financials are examined as these dealers are the face the public sees. additionally they have made investments for their storefront independent of their relationships with manufacturers.

    the E.U. has made the mistake of treating these products as commodities instead of luxuries.

    in all justice Japan should place a retaliatory tariff on Armani, Limoges, Baccarat, Chanel, Porsche, Mercedes Benz, Ferrari, and all other such brands for price fixing using the exact same logic.
     
  20. tunejunky

    tunejunky Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    425
    GPU:
    RadeonVII RTX 2070
    for the uninitiated, buying grey market goods is only a few slots above buying stolen goods.

    the same rule applies - Caveat Emptor

    the sellers MAY OR MAY NOT be held liable for returns, depending on the local laws regarding such. in any case the manufacturer bears no responsibility for warranty.

    if you're fine with saving a little money and taking your chances on an inexpensive item fine. but do not complain when you've been sold a refurbished or used item without being told.
     

Share This Page