Epic rewrote part of Unreal Engine 5 to make the most of the PlayStation 5 SSD

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Marketing BS. They may have optimized resource decoding. I have seen games that read from NVMe only 400MB/s in loading due to unrealistic game file compression in times of fast storage drives.
    In other words, I expect that they had to rewrite loading procedure where CPU was the bottleneck. Especially when console has its own storage compression in place.
    But it is not like game will load assets from storage on per frame basis. They load their megatextures, high polygon models and will manipulate those on per frame basis. There is no reason to reload same asset over and over again from relatively slow storage.
    They may have enabled faster caching of new assets which means better texture LOD for newly appearing assets. It may have even enabled them to get rid of very low resolution LODs. And all that is good.

    But what they posted is basically marketing for PS5.
     
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  3. bigfutus

    bigfutus Master Guru

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  4. apoklyps3

    apoklyps3 Master Guru

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    "the PlayStation 5 SSD" :D:D:D:D
    there's no such thing.
    can't wait for ps5 to get disected to see how many components are actually made by sony.
     

  5. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    Huh?
     
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  6. apoklyps3

    apoklyps3 Master Guru

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    there's no such think as playstation ssd.
    sony doesn't own a ssd making factory. it will be a third party, already existing SSD...
    this sounds very much like the marketing bs they pulled before when they presented watchdogs and division running on ps4 with amazing graphics only to get a highly graphical downgrade on release because the ps4 couldn't handle that.
    and the fact that it was downgraded on the PC too tells us sony pays good.
     
  7. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Guys: most of you are wrong. Now, I got more love for you than ever before right now, with this human malware killin' us all off, but, the Playstation is not a Microsoft console, just using whatever pre-existing parts are on the shelves...

    This is custom silicon, as close to being bolted onto the CPU than you can ever get.

    Did any of you actually think they just use what you or I would use? Seriously?

    Watch the deep dive on the tech - it breaks it down as follows: the SSD is pure custom silicon. It was most certainly made for them, but designed by them.

    Microsoft have lost this round, but as I've said recently to people; this round will be hard faught like the xb360/ps3, but ultimately, PS5 will win...maybe only by one unit sold, but, they will win.
     
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  8. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    From my point of view, winner is declared by 1:1 experience of people and their conclusion:
    "I should have bought that other console." will be big factor in deciding which is winning.
    People who will own both of them will be able to tell which they like more.

    But seriously, if people think that storage will drastically increase performance in games, will be badly disappointed. And then to "Designed by them and made for them."
    PS5: Internal very fast storage + internal slower and differently wired NVMe slot + External HDD/SSD
    XSX: Internal quite fast storage + external slot for exactly same storage wired in exactly same way + External HDD/SSD

    What that means:
    PS5: 2+1 tiers of performance based on storage "slot" used. If that basic storage is that "magical" then sorry for those who will have to play games from additional NVMe.
    XSX: 1+1 tiers of performance based on storage "slot" used. Both storage which console comes with and expansion slot have exactly same performance and compression abilities. This means consistent gameplay experience as one runs out of space on internal storage.
    No reason to play from external HDD/SSD. That's why I wrote that storage as +1 in "1+1"/"2+1".

    Seriously, everything Sony declared to be big advantage is just marketing spin. They have not shown anything of real gaming value that would outperform XSX.
    It is not bad, but they get what they paid for. It is not going to be better than XSX.
     
  9. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    the external NVME drive, has to have the same specifications. Cerny said that in his presentation. Everything will be faster then Microsofts drives. it is up to the developer to impliment certain patches to get it to that speed though. Multiplatform devs will probably go for the same experience, and devs bound to Sony will probably go for the faster option. this makes the most sense.

    To bad their event has been cancelled , Horizon 2 will look awesome i imagine (rumoured for appearance)

    And i dont think it will be a hard fight. Microsoft has lost it for years. They dont have many exclusives which are system sellers.
     
  10. asturur

    asturur Master Guru

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    As usual, games will matter most. Since consoles are just about games and not about hardware for bragging rights.
    Those console will be on the market for at least 3-4 years, and after the first year the hardware will be irrelevant and only games will matter.
    As for the ps4 vs xbox one. How much xboxoneX is relevant now?
     

  11. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    PS5 has NVMe SSD built by Samsung based on very specific requirements.
    If you want to have same experience using 2nd NVMe, you'll need same drive. Normal NVMe SSDs for PC will not do. They will fall under some conditions. And in few years PC NVMe SSDs will win in other situations. But they will not be same.
    Then I'll repeat myself extra for you: "There is no bottleneck to game performance that can be alleviated by 5~10GB/s storage that would not be alleviated by 1GB/s storage."

    You can take advantage of throwing sh*tload of data per second only for so long before you run out of data. Sure, you can play 8K movie as background for your game. But why would anyone do that? Sure, you can use 4K textures for objects that end up being as small as 20 pixels on screen. You can map video streams instead of textures to objects, that's doable too.
    But is that smart? Will it benefit gameplay and user's experience? Do you think that ability to load 120MB of data per frame from storage will make difference than loading 60MB of data per frame at 60fps? What kind of content do you think they will push, so it will require 100MB+ of fresh data from storage for every frame?

    At 60fps, your usual PC SSD pulls less than 10MB of data per frame. And in PC gaming, nobody told you that it is big obstacle. That's why games have loading screens, transition areas, ... 2 seconds and it is done. And even open world games are doing fine. (Unless coded by Bethesda.)
    I used to have all my drives monitored in RTSS overlay. And I can tell you that actual activity in games is almost non-existent outside of those specific places made for loading.
     
  12. Fender178

    Fender178 Ancient Guru

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    Of course there isn't. What the users meant that the PS5 is going to have an SSD in it as part of their hardware.
     
  13. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    Ok let's reword it. "SSD in the PlayStation 5". Better?
     
  14. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Dudes and dudettes, please, stop trying to compare PC tech, I/O, file storage, GPU/CPU, memory configurations, compression with PS5 - it is not a PC!

    Seeing this crap all over SM right now..."Well, the XXXX SSD drive from XXXX company is currently doing XXX performance, so the performance of PS5 MUST be XXXX as a result!"

    No. Just...no. Please stop it.

    Custom silicon.
    Custom hardware.

    The compression alone makes the PS5 win...but everything else just pummels existing tech that us, mere mortals in the land of PC's, currently reside in.

    Tim was right: the PS5 has the capability to evolve the PC (tech) market, and if you bare with me on this...don't you think it's time PC architecture was improved?

    The master race no more.
     
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  15. DocStr4ngelove

    DocStr4ngelove Master Guru

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    Last time i checked ppl played games for FUN, not fast loading times. All of this is pure marketing BS imho. Excuse my french. xD
     

  16. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Well, what are you loading?

    You can't play games if things are being loaded into memory, and, fast loading times this fast mean that an entire level/map does not have to be loaded, but it can literally stream a level in real-time.

    So - no loading of anything, just effecient shunting of data to get it where it's needed most, first.
     
  17. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    Yeah, I'd love to know how many Dev & QA hours went into this.
     
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  18. fry178

    fry178 Maha Guru

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    @Fox2232
    oh so you already have a PS5 and can tell how it performs in real world? lol

    sony outsells MS 4:1 in the past 25y, so much for what ppl like/buy,
    completely ignoring the fact that MS didnt even have an equivalent for +5 y AFTER PS1 came out.

    in the past, years the main reason ppl where buying MS consoles was because of the games,
    but for the past 10-12 month everyone is asking about PS5, not one question about XB, and all say because of the games.

    how many games for are "exclusive" to PS for the first year or two? right



    and i have yet to see a statement from sony where they say "sony" ssd,
    its always other companies, yet ppl bark at sony.
     
  19. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    So they had to rewrite it so it will stutter fest faster, gotcha..
     
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  20. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    The specifications are no problem, we already know there will be different brands out that have this. because of this, it will also be available for PC! Thanks to Sony.
    of course there are bottlenecks, the time you have to wait where you can do nothing is already a bottleneck. like when you boot the game, or in games where you die or reach a new area.

    It is pretty simple how he explained it.

    Somehow i get the impression you and other people did not watch the presentation at all , and just go by with what you have read and what you know.
     
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