Epic reiterates that the PlayStation 5 is a masterpiece of system design

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 1, 2020.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. GamerNerves

    GamerNerves Member Guru

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    Important to note here that his comment doesn't deny the fact that Xbox could still be better at the same tasks, albeit not in maximum storage speed. The major difference is only in the storage speed and potentially in sound enchancements, so will games utilize this storage speed that often and so crucially that Xbox ports will be cut down? I'm just saying that I doubt it.
     
  3. Segamon

    Segamon Member Guru

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    I think he's blowing it out of proportion for whatever reason. time will tell.
     
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  4. Fediuld

    Fediuld Member Guru

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    Carney said that he went around for years talking to developer companies of what they need most from the tech and everyone asked higher speed data transfer rates. We see every engine & game developer studio coming out praising the high speed data transfer rate because it will revolutionize the game designs. (look every post including the above).

    So they know what they are talking about and what they need to allow themselves create games in such way we never have seen before. You and the average person outside the industry doesn't.

    And we see where high data transfer rates can be used at. X4 Foundations has 100% fully simulated world, generated through a seed at the start of the game. Because is 100% fully simulated world, the save file is 400MB (start of the game) to 1GB (after 70 hours) compressed. Everyone with SSD or less takes 5+ minutes to execute a save or a load. Those of us with pci4 M.2 nvme drives is much faster, yet still takes time. This is because every object is 100% simulates, interact-able with it's own order list and behaviour (AI)
     

  5. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    If they intend to swap resources in and out at that rate and that often to give PS5 an advantage, they can as well play 8K movie for you and save a lot of space on storage.

    Imagine 30GB game swapping resources that way every second. It would have so few types of assets to swap between that anyone would realize they swap it for sake of swapping.
    So, for it to not look like clear pattern, game would be like 100~200GB.
    I think people can find better use for storage space.
    Please do not start this nonsense. Save file is created in memory and dumped sequentially to HDD which will take some 8 seconds on regular HDD. SSD can do 1GB sequential write in 2 seconds. And NVMe in 0.5 seconds.

    Minutes mark you have come from parsing of attributes that are to be saved and compression/decompression itself. (And that's completely between memory and CPU.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  6. Asgardi

    Asgardi Master Guru

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    "In an interview with the official PlayStation magazine..."

    Enough said.
     
  7. Fediuld

    Fediuld Member Guru

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    X4 Foundations copies the whole game from the memory to save file, after serializing it. Including every NPC ship with it's orders, every station, with this orders and current production status. The whole lot. And is the only 100% fully simulated game for a reason.
     
  8. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Once more. Most of time from this process of load/save is between CPU and system memory.
    Cost of reading/writing 1GB to storage is in single digit seconds.
     
  9. Tat3

    Tat3 Ancient Guru

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    I copied 2gb file from SSD to a 3tb HDD. This took about 6 seconds. Perhaps there is also something else than just the disk write and read speeds.
     
  10. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    I think I get what you are saying, but their job is to report the news - and they asked for comments and got them. They cannot be misreporting comments or Epic Games would throw them against the wall.

    What did they do wrong by quoting someone?
     

  11. asturur

    asturur Master Guru

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    I cannot agree more, you have to
    compare it with price right? 399 the base version seem good. What can you get with the same price? a 2060super and no computer around it.

    So to be a 399 computer they squeezed every performance bit per dollar they could get.

    Probably xbox is comparable.
     
  12. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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  13. Ricepudding

    Ricepudding Master Guru

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    What I'm wondering about is where does this leave pc gaming?

    Majority of the pc gaming world is either on hdd or the Sata ssds which don't come close to these speeds.

    So will pc see a lot less ports from consoles now? Cause some games we have seen like ratchet and clank look like they need an M.2 and yes I know this wouldn't be on pc anyway but used as an example.

    Least in terms of the general speed of our hard drives pc is going to be really behind all of a sudden. Or ports will be very different or terrible.

    Even game sizes developers don't look to see if we have an ssd or M. 2 drive to make the install smaller or more compressed like it could be.

    Anyway might just be chatting a lot of nonsense and time will tell, just wonder what is going to happen on pc games since as I said the majority of people do not have M. 2 let alone pcie4 gen
     
  14. Tat3

    Tat3 Ancient Guru

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    You are acting like that the SSD in PS5 is fast. It's not. Not compared to RAM and PS5 has 16gb of it. What PC people should do is get more RAM and let the game use that to make the game not need to read from SSD as often.
     
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  15. Passus

    Passus Maha Guru

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    Well PC's generally have more system and video ram

    We will still get ports but maybe with a bit slower load times here and there
     

  16. CronoGraal

    CronoGraal Ancient Guru

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    Same as always. Consoles aren't competing with normal PC's when they're released, they compete with enthusiast rigs. Enthusiasts are already on NVMe, and if not then they will be soon as prices have been going down over the year.
     
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  17. Ricepudding

    Ricepudding Master Guru

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    That still doesnt answer the crux of the issue though, least bast on cernys presentation they were talking about changing data over rapidly in situations. Like I said it may be a non issue.

    But even filling 16 or 32gb of ram from an Sata ssd or hdd can't be done on the fly. Also assuming developers will even go this route, I've got 32gb of ram never seen games use more than maybe 8?or9gb
     
  18. Pixelize

    Pixelize Member

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    Never owned an XB only PS but...
    I dont think Xbox versions will be cut down, more like the opposite will happen.
    SONY knows they got a weaker console and are trying to make it look so good by selling us the fast SSD which doesnt matter that much.
    Everyone forgets that the developers target both consoles (PS4 and XB1 was the same .. XB1 being weaker as we all know, the difference was most of the time output resolution and at the end of the life cycle some eye candy as well in some titles, also XB1X / PS4 Pro situation we got same but some games got cranked up settings in XB1X than the PS4 Pro versions of the games).
    Games need to meet the speeds of the SSD of the XBSX (as a base speed) so they can run on both consoles normally.
    The only logical way we could see that fast SSD in PS5 are PS5 exclusives and probably full potential use of it by the end of the life cycle.
    Dont think 52CU vs 36CU (same gen CU) no matter how high clock they are can compete graphic wise, 20% OC doesnt mean 20% more performance.

    N.B. XBSX design wins in my opinion, will blend in in any environment you put it with its simplistic / minimalistic design (which in 10y will spill look simple, yes, but not outdated) compared to the HUUUGE Dubai sky scraper looking Christmas tree called PS5 with its blue lights (design is already outdated or will be in couple of years and obviously is targeting 10-20yo that likes RGB in everything) PS5 wont blend in in anyone's living room unless its Christmas. (Still getting it but chances me getting XBSX as well are big)
     
  19. Ricepudding

    Ricepudding Master Guru

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    I agree, lots are going over to nvme myself included. But the vast majority are using hdd or Sata ssd which doesn't compare right?

    So will games be broken for them? Or will developers just not port games over that require these insane speed transfers?

    Star citizen is a good example of a game that needs fast transfers, on a hdd is lagging and has fps drops all the time, and you need an ssd to have a good time, so I'm wondering if its going to be similar to this.

    I could be worrying or wondering about totally nothing that be said, just been having a think about it and how goes are developed. This might even only be an issue in a few titles but it begs the question least to me with how developers now see pcs.
     
  20. asturur

    asturur Master Guru

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    People got used to buying fast and expensive gpu, they will do the same with disks right? If not they will lower details and resolutions exactly as people with older gpu do.

    So what's the new?
     

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