E8600@4.5ghz or Q9650@4ghz for Windows XP reverse sleeper build ?

Discussion in 'Processors and motherboards Intel' started by SlCKB0Y_BE, Jan 26, 2021.

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E8600@4.5ghz + GTX 470/750ti or Q9650@4ghz + GTX 960 ?

  1. E8600@4.5ghz + GTX 470/750ti

    13.0%
  2. Q9650@4ghz + GTX 960

    87.0%
  1. SlCKB0Y_BE

    SlCKB0Y_BE Member

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    hi everyone,

    question is pretty much in the title, but if you want some more details i wanna build a rig that can play any games from 2000 up to 2010 at 1600x1200 or 1920x1200 60fps locked and enjoy EAX enabled games again.


    the motherboard i'm gonna use is a Gigabyte EP45T-UD3P paired with 2x2gb of Gskill 1866mhz DDR3

    now my real question is,

    should i go for a E8600@4.5ghz + GTX 470 SOC (might be replaced with a GTX 750ti later)
    or go for the Q9650@4ghz + GTX 960 ? (last nvidia card with windows XP drivers)

    both setups should be balanced according to the bottleneck calculator,
    but i feel like using a gtx 960 on 10 years old games is a bit of an overkill perhaps ?
    or maybe could it be usefull to run the games in 3200x2400 later on ?

    if needed here the complete setup :
    Gigabyte EP45T-UD3P
    2X2gb G.Skill 1866 DDR3
    240mm AIO cpu watercooling
    120gb Sandisk SSD
    2TB Seagate HDD
    Enermax Libllusion LL30 case
    1000w Cooler Master PSU.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  2. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    GTX 960 being overkill just means that you'll be able to run higher resolutions AND/OR use less than its maximum power ON TOP OF already using less power than GTX 470 - which can run hot and power-hungry.

    960 will need 60 Watts or less to run at same FPS like 470, with later using 180 Watts.

    2nd setup by a mile, unless... I dunno what
     
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  3. rflair

    rflair Don Commisso Staff Member

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    The dual core with higher clocks will do better because nearly all games of that time being single threaded. I have a Q9550 3.85Ghz though running a media server and it does a fine job of that.

    No 470 though, the 960 or 750Ti.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  4. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    easily the second option.

    double the cores/threads, and double the L3 cache.

    that would make a nice retro PC gaming system tbh. The 960 will be total overkill and will probably be bottlenecked by the either CPU. Could try and run your games at higher resolutions. I don't think there was ever a driver that allowed DSR on WinXP though. Unless you were using it on a more modern montior or you can grab one of those classic 16:10 2600x1600 monitors

    edit:
    actually that's a good point
     

  5. SlCKB0Y_BE

    SlCKB0Y_BE Member

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    Thx for your input everyone.

    Tbh the only reason I'use the 470 is because I already have it from another pc, it's indeed very power hungry (close to 300w for the SOC version with a 30% overclock) but pretty quiet and about same perf as the 750ti.

    I think there's indeed some kind multi sampling in the drivers , can't remember if it's dsr tho. But if I remember correctly you can pick between 1.25, 1.50, 1.75 and 2 times the resolution.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  6. SlCKB0Y_BE

    SlCKB0Y_BE Member

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    thanks to you guys i thought about checking the system requirement of all the games i plan on running, and up to 2010 none seem to recommand a quad core yet.

    from what i've seen in 2010 most games seemed to be happy with a stock E6600 running 2.4ghz.
    so my guess is i'd be better off going for the E8600 at almost twice that speed to see the most benefits.

    i'll go with the 470 SOC for a little while until i find a gigabyte 750ti to go along with the blue PCB color sheme of the mobo.
    the main reason i'd switch for the 750ti is not so much power consumption as maybe newer drivers as the 470 has been legacy hardware for quite a while.


    last little question tho, i know windows XP 32bit can only handle 4gb of ram : so does the amount of ram in the gfx card lower the amount of actual ram the system can use ?
    meaning, if i go for a 2gb 750ti, will i only be able to use 2gb out of my 4gb of ram ?

    if that is the case, should i consider XP 64bit as an option or am i going to run into compatibility issues with games, drivers and what not ?
    or just don't bother, stick to XP 32bits and maybe even look for a 2x1gb ram kit with tighter timings than my current one ?

    again thanks a lot everyone for you help :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  7. Digilator

    Digilator Master Guru

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    I'd go with the Q. It should do better in GTA IV, for example.

    Checking the specs for the games you'd play makes lots of sense, though...)
     
  8. Agonist

    Agonist Ancient Guru

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    Quad all the way period.

    Currently running a q6600 @ 3.75 and had a e8500 @ 4.0. And personally the system still feels better overall with the quad while gaming. And only lose about 8-10fps depending on the title. Most of the time, the quad does better with dual GPUS for me.
    Running HD 5770 crossfire for my retro rig. 1440p 60hz panel.
     
  9. SlCKB0Y_BE

    SlCKB0Y_BE Member

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    well let say i assumed the games would run no problem as i kept using a setup pretty close to this one (same mobo but with e8400 and 4870x2) as secondary pc quite a bit futher than 2010.

    tbh i don't really mind about GTA IV as San Andreas seem to be the last EAX enabled GTA game, so i can run it on my other rigs just fine.

    also after checking, it seem DSR is indeed disabled on windows XP, but if i remember correctly there was other forms of multi sampling back then.
    might give that a try or see if it can be forced through Nvidia Inspector maybe.

    now tbh, i remember playing most games from the early 2000 at 800x600 so playing them at 1600x1200 would already feel like 4K to me ^^
     
  10. bobblunderton

    bobblunderton Master Guru

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    DirectX9 mirrors the amount of VRAM you have into the system RAM you have.
    If you have a 2gb GPU it will need 2gb of that system RAM for it. So make sure you still have enough system RAM left for what you need after the amount of GPU memory is subtracted from system memory.
    Use a 1gb GPU as that will still max out GTA IV if needed, which was one of the last GTA games that could run on XP I believe (i think it could?).
    Be aware Windows XP home has processor core amount limitations. I believe this changed around SP2 for the OS but you'll have to read up because it's been a hot minute.
     

  11. rflair

    rflair Don Commisso Staff Member

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    Run XP x64, from recollection there were few, if any games that wouldn't run on it from that era, the exception being DOS games and maybe some 16bit titles but then you could just setup a dual boot for that.
     
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  12. SlCKB0Y_BE

    SlCKB0Y_BE Member

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    i would use the quad over the duo all day aswell, but i really want to go for a single GPU solution to avoid dealing with sli/crossfire profile anymore.

    i'm currently using the Q9650 in another rig, paired to a nvidia 590i mobo, 4x2gb of ram and a sli of 560ti, but i have to tweak sli profiles far too often for my liking,
    and on top of that the x-fi glitch with the 590i chipset even with daniel k support pack, never found a way to fix it :/

    according to the bottleneck calculator the Q9650@4ghz would require the 960 to not be GPU bottlenecked (333 to 450 FSB is +35% overclock, calculator only go to +30%)
    https://pc-builds.com/calculator/Core2_Quad_Q9650/GeForce_GTX_960/0gW0Oepm/4/100/ (yes, i was suprised aswell, look like grampa is still going strong)

    but thinking about it, i seem to remember the Q9650 would only give moderate improvement in dual threaded games by running the background services on the two cores left free.
    given those games will never make use of the 2 other cores, and as such treat the Q9650 as a dual core, wouldn't the GTX 960 be bottlenecked anyway ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  13. SlCKB0Y_BE

    SlCKB0Y_BE Member

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    hum that's what i thought.
    after checking most games from 2010 seem to only require 2gb of ram to run (exept star craft 2 who require 3gb apparently).

    guess i'll stick to the 470 and it's 1250mb of vram for the time being, but i might check if a 2gb video card would be required to allow me to run games at 3200x2400 for some future proofing maybe.

    thanks for the advice on xp home core limitation, didn't knew until learned about it not so long ago while listening Philscomputerlab,
    but don't worry i was planning on installing xp pro sp3 right from the get go anyway :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  14. Raserian

    Raserian Member Guru

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    It would be worthwhile to try 64-bit XP, if you can get all your drivers for it. Most games from 2010 work on 64-bit OS just fine.
     
  15. suty455

    suty455 Master Guru

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  16. SlCKB0Y_BE

    SlCKB0Y_BE Member

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    yup i know about alchemy but to be honest i never really tried it.
    there's a handfull of games i plan on playing in the compatibility list, but not all of them and honestly think i'd rather go for a true XP build for nostalgia sake.

    if i remember correctly X-fi cards had hardware acceleration under windows xp, dunno how much of a difference it really made but it'll be cool to exploit this feature again
     
  17. SlCKB0Y_BE

    SlCKB0Y_BE Member

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    quick update for anyone interested :

    only received the case from amazon today, decided to go ahead and install windows xp already but with the cpu still running at default speed with a crappy low profile cooler i had laying around.

    XP installation was a bit tricky at first as my ssd wasn't recognized by the setup program, but managed to add the SATA drivers to the windows installation files with Nlite and then built a bootable USB installation disk with WinSetupFromUSB. setup and drivers install went very smoothly. also installed the unofficial service pack 4 for good measure.

    only "issue" i have is i can't seem to be able to connect neither to the web nor to my other computers on the network even if the computer get a network ip adress, will look more into it tomorrow.

    also as you guys have said the GTX 470 air cooled is a freakin' toaster, with brand new thermal paste and running under 60% cpu usage this thing already goes over 70°c even with a custom fan speed model.

    tried to max it under heaven benchmark just for sh!t and giggles and it hit 90° in a matter of 30sec Oo

    the airflow in the case is not really the best for the moment with just 2 fans, but Themi is clearly living up to it's reputation.
    as i don't think adding more fans will manage to cut 10 to 20° from that volcano, i decided to pull the plug on a gigabyte 750 ti OC 2gb as you guys recommanded.

    now the good part : tried a handfull of games (doom 3, unreal tournament 2004, ...) and even at stock CPU speed, with every details set to max in the games,
    2x2 supersampling + 4x multisampling in the drivers, it keep 60fps with less than 60% gpu usage.

    needless to say games look absolutly gorgeous, not a single jaggies to be seen, and even the lighting/shadow effects seem smoother than i remember,
    maybe it's due to the much higher resolution than i had back then on my crappy gaming PC and CRT.

    all in all i'm very pleased with the result already, if only for the GPU temp to be fixed, it look like it should rip through any games of the era (minus crysis perhaps i guess).

    looking forward to get the AIO/Fans so i can stretch the CPU's legs and see what the rig can really do.

    let me know if you're interested in some work in progress pictures of the build or benchmarks,
    and thanks again for your advices everyone :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
  18. bobblunderton

    bobblunderton Master Guru

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    Windows Server 2003 drivers may work on 64-bit XP if it's 64-bit driver, but this isn't always true.
    Just saying so, as it may be your only shot at getting some things to work if you cannot otherwise find drivers.
     
  19. SlCKB0Y_BE

    SlCKB0Y_BE Member

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    i went for good ol' winxp pro sp3 32bit afterall, added the unofficial sp4 and newest drivers i could find, think it should be enough as i don't plan to use it to go on the web anyway.

    had some troubles with the Aerocool AIO, my guess is either the waterblock wasn't flat or the max TDP was lower than the low profile radiator i had before, but temp would go higher than 80° at 4ghz. sent it back and bought a enermax one, just hope it'll fit on the socket 775, if it doesn't i dunno if i'm not gonna go for a normal fan cpu cooler as aerocool seem to be the last brand making socket 775 AIO and quality control seem pretty hit and miss.

    the 120mm fans are nice and silent tho, all 6 of them are powered from the same hub and can be controlled using a remote, pretty cool for the price.
    should receive the logitech 2.1 speakers kit on monday, will finaly be able to enable EAX as for the moment i'm using the (sh!tty) monitor's speakers.
    wouldn't mind a ARGB mouse/keyboard next but i'm looking for something less expensive than corsair.

    quite pissed about the AIO situation as it prevent me from overclocking the CPU and it did looked pretty nice for the price.
    if the enermax AIO end up not fitting the socket, do you think i should give aerocool another try or not even bother with that brand ?
     
  20. Raserian

    Raserian Member Guru

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    You should verify if AiO you plan to buy does support your socket. It must be listed in the specs and if it is not than it won't fit. You can always contact manufacturer for confirmation.
     

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