DX10 said to increase performance 4x-6x

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by 240aintenuff, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. 240aintenuff

    240aintenuff Member Guru

    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Unlocked 6950
    Here's a list of several new Direct3D 10 performance improvements GameSpot was able to wrestle out of the DirectX 10 team:

    *New constant buffers maximize efficiency of sending shader constant data (light positions, material information, etc.) to the GPU by eliminating redundancy and massively reducing the number of calls to the runtime and driver.
    *New state objects significantly reduce the amount of API calls and bandwidth, tracking, mapping, and validation overhead needed in the runtime and driver to change GPU device state.
    *Texture arrays enable the GPU to swap materials on-the-fly without having to swap those textures from the CPU.
    *Resource views enable super-fast binding of resources to the pipeline by informing the system early-on about its intended use. This also vastly reduces the cost of hazard-tracking and validation.
    *Predicated rendering allows draw calls to be automatically deactivated based on the results of previous rendering - without any CPU interaction. This enables rapid occlusion culling to avoid rendering objects that aren’t visible.
    Shader Model 4.0 provides a more robust instruction set with capabilities like integer and bitwise instructions, enabling more work to be transferred to the GPU.
    *The D3D runtime itself has been completely refactored to maximize performance and configurability by the application.

    http://www.gamespot.com/features/6143883/p-4.html
     
  2. Wolverine69r

    Wolverine69r Guest

    it only boosts Dx10 apps, DX9 apps will still be emulated via caps and converted to Dx10 calls.
     
  3. RejZoR

    RejZoR Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,211
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Sapphire HD4870 Silent
    Though DX9 games will benefit from unified shader capable hardware...
     
  4. Wolverine69r

    Wolverine69r Guest

    no they won't, they will actually suffer, becoz the current games aren't designed to utilise a unified shaded architecture.. they are designed to use the split system which means yet again, emulation occurs to allow the games to run.
     

  5. RejZoR

    RejZoR Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,211
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Sapphire HD4870 Silent
    Well, you're wrong at this point. Game doesn't really care whether it's unified or not. If hardware can deliver shader units required by the game, then why not?
    If you run the game on 12 PS and 5 VS hardware and game exceeds HW capabilities in lets say VS units by 2 (it's more demanding for VS units than PS units). You're done in fixed HW world and game will most probably run bad.
    But if card can re-balance these 12/5 into 10/7 it's different isn't it?
    DX9 game will take it as 10 PS/7 VS hardware and deliver the stuff as usual.
    This is just a quick example, balancing will be probably controled via "generic" driver controller. Hell, if there is demand it can even do a 7PS/12VS if it wants.
     
  6. Wolverine69r

    Wolverine69r Guest

    actually it does,

    The game shaders are designed to access separate Shader paths, by unifying the vertex shaders with pixel shaders you will be losing the vertex path.

    Pixel shaders may work, but the vertex pipeline will be missing and will need to be emulated which means being forwarded via DX to the new unified design.

    your explanation is baseless as Unified means it will only be one pipeline of 48+ pipes including the vertex shaders.

    there is no 24psx8vs. it will be all one shader path, which means Dx9 games and lower on a fully capable Dx10 card will need to be either patched. or DX will need to redirect calls for the vertex shader towards thier new registers in the unified pipe.

    hence. VS performance will drop considerably.
     
  7. bug77

    bug77 Banned

    Messages:
    3,468
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Palit 8800GT
    Afaik, unified shaders require they be unified at software level. They don't need to be unified in hardware, though it's possible they will.
     
  8. Wolverine69r

    Wolverine69r Guest

    Unified Shaders will be unified on the hardware level. as well as the software level.

    software shaders are emulated shaders
     
  9. grimsanta

    grimsanta Master Guru

    Messages:
    753
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    8800GTS 640MB @ 575/1750
    Wow, looks like no one here really knows what unified shaders are.

    A unified shader pipeline can adapt. Look at Xenos, it has 48pipes and it can program itself on the fly, meaning that it can make those 48pipes emulate 32ps and 16vs, or all 48ps, depending on the situation. The downside to this is that the pipes are never as efficient as something that is built to be a pixel shader and not a vertex shader. However, they are easier to produce, and packing more pipes into a GPU is not hard to do, so really it's a better way of doing things in the end.
     
  10. Wolverine69r

    Wolverine69r Guest

    exactly.. EMULATE. but the software has to be written to compensate. which means the same performance loss will still occur.

    Xenos is running a customised version of pretty much DX10, which is using emulation techniques.

    Also remember its easier to emulate consoles then it is to emulate computers.
     

  11. RejZoR

    RejZoR Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,211
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Sapphire HD4870 Silent
    I was talking about game demand not hardware capabilities geez.
    12/5 was just an example, ofcourse i know there are just shaders (17 in this very example, though i selected weird number...) that can do pixel and vertex operations (not like current separated ones).

    You also don't get it that emulation is not emulation in right meaning of the word (like emulating N64 on PC). They'll make drivers that handle the load when they release the cards.
    Otherwise such games written for DX9 hardware would detect 48 PS units and none VS (or vice versa) and throw you error in the face (most probable scenario).

    Also about emulation of consoles isn't always easier. You can fully emulate Nintendo 64 and some PS1 titles but years after PS2 release we still aren't able to run PS2 games on PC's no matter how powerful they are.
     
  12. Wolverine69r

    Wolverine69r Guest

    ok, its not emulation persay, i was just saying it like that so the average jo would understand it

    the driver and DX10 will migrate DX9 calls into DX10 calls so a slight performance penalty will occur as the software translates the calls so they reach the proper parts of the video card.
     
  13. RejZoR

    RejZoR Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,211
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Sapphire HD4870 Silent
    I don't think translation of calls will add such high performance penalty compared to benefit of extra PS/VS units where needed the most. Unless if you'll run brand new kick azz GeForce 8900 Ultra on Celeron 2GHz...
    But i don't think(i hope!) anyone is that stupid...
     
  14. Wolverine69r

    Wolverine69r Guest

    it won't be a high penalty, but it wil still be a penalty.

    basically its going to be a DX9 > DX10 wrapper
     
  15. Darkasantion

    Darkasantion Master Guru

    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Club 3D HD5870 1035/1325
    The G80 was hybrid, with the old hardware design, however unified in software!

    And maybe a bit a dump statement, but I don't think games will make a big differance when going to unified, because the software/driver is the one who translates the in and output coming from the engine/card and not the hardware itself so the game-engine will notice almost nothing in input or output, because the driver is the link between the game-engine and the hardware, so I guess it will be for a big part all up to the driver(s) to do the trick.

    Hope I'm right:);) If not I'll see it:p

    Greetz Darkasantion
     

  16. orenda635

    orenda635 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,865
    Likes Received:
    2
    GPU:
    BFG 7600GS 256mb / Radeon 9550 32mb
    Any ideas of what games will be using DX10.

    Microsoft Flight Simulator X will, but can also be rendered using DX9. That's the only one I know of.
     
  17. Wolverine69r

    Wolverine69r Guest

    the games are still designed to use separate shader paths.
     
  18. zinc99

    zinc99 Master Guru

    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    ATI 5850
    do you really think that the hardware makers are going to make a product that is SLOWER than old generations? That would be just dumb, they will for sure put in hardware support for DX9 as well as DX10 to keep everyone happy and buying there new stuff. Not everyone is just going to jump to vista. Look how long it took to get XP stable I stayed on 2000 for a good 2 years after XP came out for XP just was too buggy.
     
  19. Wolverine69r

    Wolverine69r Guest

    no.. its fact. DX9 will be 10% slower under DX10 due to architecture changes
     
  20. meatfestival92

    meatfestival92 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,767
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Geforce 9800 GTX @ 815/2078/1180
    Where is all this nonsense coming from? You're just making this **** up, aren't you?

    In Vista, DX9 games will use Vista's own version of DX9 which is completely separate from DX10. There is no emulation going on here (maybe for OpenGL games though).
    It's actually been reported that DX9.L (as it's known) will run games faster due to optimisations that weren't possible to implement under Windows XP.
    DX10 is only for DX10 cards, and only on Vista. No emulation here either.

    Read all about it here... http://download.microsoft.com/downl...4e74-92a3-088782200fe7/TWPR05007_WinHEC05.ppt
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2006

Share This Page