DVI-I and the future or past of CRT gaming

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce' started by MisterWhippy, Nov 3, 2018.

  1. MisterWhippy

    MisterWhippy Master Guru

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    I only recently realized that the sun has set on CRT gaming. I am in the market for the best option for a DVI-I crt monitor that I have had for 13 years or more. I don't want to use more electronics to convert digital signals to an analog format. What is my option Gurus? Is the Nvidia 9XX series the last Hurrah? Is there any contemporary GPUS that offer DVI-I output right from the card? LCDs just look like garbage, and I am set in my ways, so suggesting that I just get an LCD is preposterous. I have an LCD. Its a 144hz Asus, and I use it on the side, turned 90 degrees for reading web pages like this. My main screen is a CRT, and at 1920x1200 @ 90hz it makes any LCD look like garbage.

    What are my options realistically?
     
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  2. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    Realistically there is no future. Objectively, quality LED's have better image fidelity in every metric. The drawback of your current display is it LIMITATIONS in needing an analog conversion versus using the original DIGITAL signal. Perhaps something along the lines of AMOLED? But since you've ruled out all options but CRT, you're stuck with your low resolution, low contrast, blurry CRT.
     
  3. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    You do know that CRT is the only non-blurry display tech that is available right now, right? And it has contrast that is way better than LCDs.

    Your comment just comes off as completely ignorant, and you don't seem to know what you're talking about. If you weren't serious, one would think you're trolling...
     
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  4. WareTernal

    WareTernal Master Guru

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  5. GREGIX

    GREGIX Master Guru

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    Big LOL.
    Assume u never used good quality CRT. That would explain a lot. Or really troll.

    OP, use adapter above. And wait. SED is dead, OLED for monitor screens too, so uLED is what I count for. I mean, CRT like/better responsiveness, contrast and colour...
    Probably another 10 years, investment in crappy IPS/VA and mLED have to refund costs in them...
     
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  6. Nijohc

    Nijohc Master Guru

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    I still have a 22" Trinitron CRT connected to my pc for retro games, looks far better than playing them on my 27" VA panel. I also have a CRT TV with a Sega Saturn, PSX, OG XBOX and Neo Geo AES connected to it.
     
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  7. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    wish I had room for CRT , the destroy LCD/LED tech as far as i concerned.

    LCD/LED can LOOK amazing but that general when they are STILL, in motion there are crap 120hz/240hz monitor wont fix they way they look in motion, minimize? maybe? that depend on who you ask and if said person you asking has GPU that can feed that 120/240 fps under all conditions which, isnt feasable or cheap
     
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  8. user1

    user1 Maha Guru

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    as mentioned , a quality displayport to vga /dvi-i adapter would work fine to solve your problem.

    while it may appear that you are "adding" a stage to the image processing by using an adapter in reality little has changed
    since gpus formerly had the dac hardware onboard, by going with a displayport adapter , you are just moving that stage off board.
     
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  9. MisterWhippy

    MisterWhippy Master Guru

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    I have a GDM-FW900 & I have a professional color calibration kit and know how to use WINDAS. This spring was the last time calibrated, and it still looks quite impressive for being older than most internet users. 1920x1200 @ 90hz is amazing. My display delivers true black, versus lcds which have limitations which look tragic in comparison. I don't mean to sound condescending, but I doubt you have ever used a quality CRT. I have purchased 3 gaming monitors over the last 6 years, and none have come close to the CRT. Not for contrast, not for color and not for fast motion. I gave one to my mother, and one to my mother-in-law. There is nothing funnier then seeing an 82 year old lady sitting at a 27" ASUS 1080p monitor playing plants vs zombie...I kept the 144hz and use it as a side monitor & it works great for garbage like system monitoring tools and reading web pages....which look better when viewed vertically. There is more to gaming than "resolution", but this old CRT from 1999 still runs 2560x1600 @ 60 hz....Which is the way I play the stupid console ports llike Fallout 4 and Skyrim SE that require 60fps/60hz w/vsync. Don't take it the wrong way, but you don't know what you are missing. You may think you do, and that is ok with me.

    I will have to check this out, but I certainly need DVI-I dual link. I connect DVI-i to 5-bnc.

    I always liked plasma displays, and its a shame they never stuck around.

    This asus 144hz Looks terrible COMPARED to my crt. Sure it looks better compared to a 60hz LCD, but it simply does not compare. Having a GTX Titan a few months really opened my eyes to this. I did a test, and 90hz on the CRT just looks better in every way compared to the LCD. Blacks are true black, and there is none of the "ghosting" effect. Sure 144hz alleviates it somewhat, but then you get into the terrible color representation that a fast LCD gives.

    My ONLY televisions are CRT, for the same purpose. Currently running a Zenith 27" Console created with love in 2004. It was lightly used 2 years before the owner Died, and the family gave it to a second hand reseller where it sat until this summer when I finally got sick of looking at it sitting there. Price: "Make Offer". For $20 they even loaded into my jeep for me. The picture tube certainly was nearly new, and it is the most clear CRT I have ever owned....and the sound system is outstanding. It looks great for PSX, N64, Wii (240p emulation machine) and a Wii-U even with S-Video. I also have a Samsung 20" 240p 15khz component video I use for the Xbox and my other Wii (also emulation machine) We have a few "LCD" tvs, but I gave them to my kids for their Alienware alpha systems. They don't know any better, so I won't tell them lol. Kids don't appreciate CRT tvs when their only point of reference is "Ugggh its old and heavy".
    [​IMG]

    I will have to look into this. There is an entire discussion about my make of monitor at another Hardware forum, and they have a few that they have recommended, but they are hit or miss. One of the joys I have with this monitor is running 1280x800 @ 120 hz. I remember playing Counter Strike and Source on it, and it is nearly nauseating to see a true 120hz/120fps. If I can find a DAC that can operate these frequencies, I may just give up and get something like this. I enjoyed the simplicity of the DVI-I output. I am trying to find a balance of cost vs quality....and a warranty is a must. This is really my last "High end" pc. I don't see gaming improving in a way that will keep me engaged....I think the best of gaming is behind us.

    Thanks everyone. Will have to look at costs and see how far I want to go. I have not shopped honestly for a GPU in years, and this is all good info. There are still new in box GTX 980s floating around, and that would be more than sufficient for what I need.
     
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  10. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    Over the decades, I've used the very top end CRTs working at the top end electronic firms in Silicon Valley. A few years ago, you had a point. The current tech has exceeded CRT in every way.
     

  11. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    You like them in motion because of the inherent persistence of phosphors. It essentially looks like motion blur. Folks can have a preference, but the most modern displays exceed CRT tech in every way.
     
  12. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    If current tech has exceeded CRT in every way, then why is motion blurry on LCD and crystal clear on CRT? Why do we have wrong gamma and wrong color across the screen? The top of a TN looks different than the middle and bottom, so as you move your view around in a game, the image changes. And if you try to fix it by using a VA, you get contrast shift instead and VA glow and more ghosting. And if you try IPS, you get IPS glow instead.

    All this doesn't strike me as exceeding CRT tech in every way :-/ I'm not saying CRT is superior in every way, but claiming that LCD gaming monitors have "exceeded CRT in every way" is so obviously false.

    You got that backwards. Phosphor does NOT have big persistence. Phosphor persistence is mere microseconds. LCD persistence is milliseconds (thousands of microseconds.)
     
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  13. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    Ha ha...

    [​IMG]

    Nor was I limiting it to LCD. I said current tech. YOU said LCD.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  14. MisterWhippy

    MisterWhippy Master Guru

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    I appreciate that you have an opinion that is totally unrelated to my topic. I didn't ask for my post to get off topic, and I specifically stated that getting an LCD is out of the question in the OP. I am not going to discuss it at all. Please find another thread to derail.

    I am looking for suggestions for cards that have DVI-I or other options.
     
  15. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    Your question was specifically "What are my options realistically?" If actually answering your question as you asked it, is 'derailing', my bad. And your other question, Nvidia and AMD are working really hard to eliminate analog output on GPU's. Too them it's a waste of power and board real estate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018

  16. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Yes, ha ha:



    That's some actual footage of the CRT scanline going across the screen. Luminance drops off very fast. Followed by footage of a modern display with persistence that sometimes actually exceeds a whole frame.

    What else then? OP asks for a gaming monitor. Please, tell us about high refresh gaming displays that are not LCD.
     
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  17. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Maybe he is referring to OLEDs with 240hz refresh rate(the ones that don't exist)
     
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  18. CDJay

    CDJay Member Guru

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    Please go and run Shadow of The Tomb Raider or Forza Horizon 4 on one of the new 4k 98hz HDR Gsync panels. That'll be running at 10bit 4:4:4. They're overpriced, and imperfect, but still far better than any CRT display with appropriate content. There may be some trade offs between display tech, but there is literally no way of claiming a tiny monitor with drastically reduced resolution, non adaptive (and indeed lower) framerate, Rec 709 vs 2020, is going to actually look better. See also: RGB Laser Dolby Vision projectors vs even the best oldskool CRT lamp based ones. The bar *has* moved. It'll keep going, at an exponential rate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  19. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    CRT people VS flatpanel People
    flatpanel tech is crap where it maters which is in motion all them have crazy blur in motion compared to CRT it all in the eye of the beholder and most people that grew up with CRT will tell CRT are superior in black being black and uniform especially motion, because they are

    Phosphor delay isnt want cause the motion blur issue, CRT response times in like 1 ┬Ás vs the 1-10ms flatpanel have there huge difference between the 2 and why motion blur is inherent on the flatpanel tech

    Still BRIGHT pictures flatpanel have CRT beat, but where it matters which Blacks being black and zero motion blur in comparisons to flatpanel they cant be beat. What good is amazing picture if the moment it goes in motions it becomes smeared mess. When flatpanel tech starting poping up that is when alot game developers started using bluring techniques in there game to trying to hide things which to this day I turn off in all games, cause I cant stand, flatpanel have enough of it as it is/

    oLED which will probably never become more then a niche, is ONLY flatpanel fixed resolutions tech that comes close to CRT PQ in Motion. I can easily hook up a CRT Monitor I anit got room for anymore and see an instance difference in how things in motion look it pretty much clear on CRT same goes for blacks compared to flatpanel panels. Lack of room and fact they dont make CRT anymore is reason why I use flatpanel displays any only reason

    IF CRT tech was still developed it would would have just as good PQ as flatpanel at this point, while still being king in Black's being Black and PQ of of things in motion. it would still be the heavier tech, but would not be as heavy as it was back then.


    Then again argue this is like argue with people saying Vsync off with High refreshrates has no tearing, It still does it just harder to see and those people just cant see it. Just like people claimed they dont use vsync and have no tearing but are use windowed (fullscreen) which has it OWN version of vsync and input lag associated with but. they dont see it or feel cause they though there was vsync in first place. Just like people that Only was used vsync dont feel input lag, unless the frame rate becomes super slow I have not felt input lag in anything in over decade so long as it stay at 60fps dont meant not there though 25fps where I start to feel it

    as far as i concerned all flatpanel panel tech is crap where it maters, oLED, and this uLED only thing that looks interesting going forward

    I might hate IPS panels cause in motion and there blacks and unifomity are utter trash, but still picture calabrated, blows CRT out of the water even when there not calibrated they do
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  20. MisterWhippy

    MisterWhippy Master Guru

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    FIRSTLY:
    Thank you to the members who filled me in on the Digital to analog conversion, and understood that CRT tech & Analog outputs was all I was interested in. I think I am correct in thinking that a GTX 980 ti is the best analog output GPU, and I did find a new one, but it comes with no warranty.

    If I knew that simply asking for info on the best analog output Video card would turn into an LCD discussion instantly, I would have just googled it myself. I know that just saying that I appreciate CRT tech is enough to drive tech people insane, but I expected better from this site. Perhaps this place has changed like the GPUs. Confusing mess is one way to describe it. I just haven't seriously read about/looked at/researched anything involving gpus since I bought a pair of GTX 260s new. That was my mistake. This was never meant for a discussion on the merits and flaws of various display technology. I don't even care at this point. I have too much crap sitting around, and I don't need excuses to piss away more money on displays that there is a high potential for me to hate. Part of my original line of questioning is that I am not planning on making any more upgrades to my PC. I have no desire to keep "gaming". I haven't bought a video game in years, and over the last 10 I may have bought 4 at steam sale prices.

    Ill make it simple for you illiterate gorillas who can't stop talking about LCDs: I don't give one procreating crap about LCDs. I didn't want to read about procreating LCDs. I have every intent of continuing to use my CRT. I don't know how a topic about GPUs turned into a LCD tech dick-waving competition. If I knew that Analog support was dropped, I would have gotten a GPU with that technology NEW quite a while ago. I thought I was clear in my OP, but selective reading is apparently a thing. Some of you guys are a-ok, and I appreciate your consideration, I honestly do. The rest of you with your led talk can cram it up your Display port. I like my displays like I like my women. Thick, heavy, slightly older and non-smoking.

    I won't be back to this thread, and probably not to the site. Thanks for all the great discussions that happened between 2007 and the day before yesterday. Thanks Hilbert Hagedoorn!


    This is worth a read. It is short and to the point.
    https://twitter.com/frankcifaldi/status/1003742533468413957
     
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