Dummy Dies? ThreadRipper examined[der8auer]

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by BigMaMaInHouse, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. BigMaMaInHouse

    BigMaMaInHouse Member Guru

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    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  2. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    So AMD lied about that.
    They said 2 dies are blank for structural support
     
  3. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    This actually makes sense to me. Damaged/defective zeppelins get used this way and it makes for no wasted silicon.
     
  4. BigMaMaInHouse

    BigMaMaInHouse Member Guru

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    If you don't tell the enemy about your secret weapon- the enemy will not get ready for it...
    So, AMD prefers let Intel brag about their 18C CPU :).

    Plus, as we all know- 4 8C dies with huge surface area is much easyer to cool , so even if they release 4X Rysen 1700 dies it will not have a problem regarding cooling even at ~250W.
     

  5. craycray

    craycray Member Guru

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    Makes sense, 2 good dies for operation, 2 dead ones for structural support. Reduces waste management costs.
     
  6. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    At this point it really doesn't matter.
    18core or 32core epyc will be unobtainable for 99% of gamers/general use.

    Actually it doesn't make any sense.
    Highly doubt these are totally dead dies, more likely they are at least half usable(4cores).
    The good dies could have be rearranged differently or even IHS for the 'structural' support.
     
  7. zero_cool

    zero_cool Active Member

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    They dont even have any wiring... dead
     
  8. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Of course they are 'dead', why waste time when you are purposely putting on dies for 'structural support'.
    They are purposely done like that.

    The idea is that originally those dies are possibly usable.
    Which is why it doesn't seem to make sense.
     
  9. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    Makes sense. As der8auer said, there is no reason why they would use dummy silicon for structural support, instead of modifying the IHS. The two "dummy dies" are probably non-functional zeppelins, and Threadripper is probably binned Epyc CPUs.

    This makes me very happy, since it opens up the very real possibility of a 24-core or 32-core Threadripper for X399. :)
     
  10. BigMaMaInHouse

    BigMaMaInHouse Member Guru

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    Of course the 32C epyc will be unobtainable for 99% of gamers/general use, but think about professional who needed to build huge Server PC and sold their House for 2 high core Xeons for production, I have build PC based on 2X Xeon 2670 (16C/32T Total) and it was very expensive and huge, but soon thanks to AMD back in the race we could build nice Silent little 32C/64T Monster PC at much cheaper price!. I am sure this will have great positive effect on content creators that want to produce high quality work but they don't have ~50K $$$ to build Intel Xeon PC's.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017

  11. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Unless the defect in those chips was something that you couldn't segment off.

    Like if you have a failed core, you could cut the core and turn it into something else - but if the failure is on a part of the CPU that you can't bin into something else, what do you do with it? You turn it into a lego.
     
  12. Silva

    Silva Ancient Guru

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    So maybe as soon as next year we could see a 32 core threadripper.
    Interesting year this has been for computer tech.
    Now bring Vega 11 and redeem yourself AMD!
     
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  13. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    @Agent-A01
    Why are you in such a hissy fit over this? Seriously, why does it matter whether the dies are real or just blanks? Whether some of the dies are partially functional is also irrelevant - they must have deemed enough of the dies are of adequate functionality to release a product up-to-spec. For example, if all the cores are functional but the L3 has a big defect, those cores are basically junk. The fact of the matter is, they're non-functional dies; they function only as dummies.
     
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  14. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Maha Guru

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    I knew they were lying about that when they said they were dummy dies. It makes no sense unless you have near 100% yields.
     
  15. waltc3

    waltc3 Maha Guru

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    I've never seen anything about "blanks"...that's your invention, completely...;) Quoting from HH's article:

    I personally think that AMD simply might be is re-using failed dies here and simply called them dummies as in non-working dies.

    Of course, HH is spot on. "Dummies" *cough* doesn't necessarily mean "blank plastic cubes", etc.--that would be ridiculous and cost a lot of money to produce inserted into a shipping cpu--a whole lot more $ than a simple die disablement process in a batch. Whether the cores are failed in that they wouldn't verify, or they verify fine, it's a trivial matter in the production process to render as many cores as you like completely inoperable for purposes of meeting SKU demand, etc.--turning them into "dummies"--inert silicon. Cores like this cannot be "turned on" later. I always marvel at how people turn molehills into mountains. This, really, doesn't even qualify as a "molehill," imo.
     

  16. Venix

    Venix Ancient Guru

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    Logic says that they are dies that did not qualify even for a 4core else they loose money except if their yields are that good that they have 0 non qualifying dies then they will be forced to use as support working dies ... oh the humanity!
     
  17. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    Well, to be fair, I thought this as well. My original thought was that they were disabled or non-functional dies, but then AMD said they were just spacers and I got the impression that they were blank pieces of silicon. In hindsight, I think AMD was just trying to make it clear that those dies could not be activated or used, as some people were speculating about this possibility.
     
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  18. Embra

    Embra Maha Guru

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    They are dummy spacers ..... let's move on.
     
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  19. xodius80

    xodius80 Master Guru

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    these pictures hurts the soul so bad..

    i did like AMDs fine glue...
     
  20. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Watch his first delid video, he stated clearly that AMD said threadripper used 2 ryzen dies. He delids and sees 4 dies.
    AMD reinstates differently by saying they are 'blank' 'dummy'.

    By blank I do not mean it's plastic lol.
    Anyways, they should have just moved the two 8 die modules to the middle, makes no sense to add 'dummy' dies for structural support.
     

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