DRM makes Spore most pirated game ever

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Guru3D News, Sep 15, 2008.

  1. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    I don't think I recall advocating someone downloading the game. My intent was to advocate boycotting the game, by not buying it.
     
  2. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    Copyright violation/infringement, not theft.
     
  3. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Actually the number of cracked to purchased copies is higher for Crysis then for Spore. So technically EA could say that the stricter DRM they implemented worked in their favor, even after tons of people went to crack it just because they could.
     
  4. aparicio1

    aparicio1 Member Guru

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    That's exsactly what i think .... i use a crack because i can't buy 3 games to fill my 3 gaming PCs .... The only multiuser software i own is VISTA 64 5 user licence even though i only have 3 PCs And a custom build notebook (By the way is vista ultimate) ...So my point is i am the only one who brigns money to my house, and i'm just a mason.... why would i pay for 4 games when the four computers where i play are mine.....
     

  5. Bani

    Bani Master Guru

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    My bad, I miss fired indeed. I was aiming for that article you posted.
     
  6. Chouji

    Chouji Ancient Guru

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    I'm not going to read through all the arguements. but from the few i did read.

    Some people buy the game but decide to crack it, for fair use, convience, or compatability.
    Some people download the game because they cant afford it, or, they want to play the game, but they dont feel it's worth spending money on.

    some people download the game because they want to. Not because they cant afford ot, and not because they feel the games value isnt worth it's listed price, but only because they want to keep the money they have, but get the game as well.


    People say, you cant boycott a game by pirating it. And you're right, BUT you can boycott the DRM by pirating it. Pirates dont have anything against the game, it's the protection of games that annoy people. (not all people)


    To many people are making the mistake of seeing the game and the DRM as one.
    By pirating the game, it tells EA their DRM doesn't effect them, not in the slightest.

    I bought spore, and i used 1 activation installing it on one of my computers, then when i read about the DRM, i used a crack on my other PC, I bought the game, and i can say honestly, the DRM is retarded. I reformat every 6 months or so. And i'm sure i'll replay spore later on. But without the crack, the DRM would just screw me over.

    When uninstalling a game, we should be allowed to release an activation.
    As i'm installing and uninstalling games all the time,

    My 400gb hard drive isnt enough and i'm not going to go out and buy another one.
    (I use my PC and it's ATI tv tuner as a DVR, since i work odd hours, and sleep through my favorite shows.
     
  7. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    Denial: You also have to take into account the fact that Crysis has been out since when.... January? February? Whereas Spore was only released a week or two ago.

    Bani: To be honest.... i think you're getting a bit TOO fired up over piracy. You say that game publishers will see piracy numbers.... say "screw PC's", and move to consoles. But the fact still stands that piracy has existed since floppy disks.... and still exists.

    You also stated that Piracy leads to DRM... which now basing your opinion on what has now happened with Spore... which lead to more piracy, will lead to more DRM. What YOU are blind to see... was that quite a while ago.... i'm talking probably a year or two... a game was released.... in the middle of a rather large piracy dilemma.... with ZERO DRM. Guess what.... That game was pirated LESS than other games that had DRM measures in place. Plain and simple.... people who KNOW about such DRM measures... do NOT want to buy a game to find out that there's a chance that you won't be able to play the game in possibly the very near future. One thing that was brought up about Spore was the fact that should EA decide to shut down the activation servers... you'll have a nice shiny $50 DVD that's useless. They could also deny you an extra activation for your legally purchased product on a whim because they might THINK you pirated the game. Granted the latter possiblity probably wouldn't happen.... it's still a possibility.

    You also said that:

    if you ask me... that is FICTION. Like it was mentioned before... about people downloading games from torrent sites to see how they like the game, and buying it if they like it..... i'm one of those people. I'll admit it... i do on occasion pirate a game. I've also purchased quite a few... especially recently. Right now sitting next to me i have UT3, CoD4, World in Conflict, Crysis, Hellgate: London, and Mass Effect. I've also purchased every episode of Half-Life 2 on their day of release. Do i regret a large number of those purchases? damn straight. Bought UT3 because i liked UT2k4 which i also purchased.... but UT3 SUCKED!!!! CoD4 get's boring after playing for a while. World in Conflict was fun, but also get's kinda boring. Crysis is still fun to mess around with. Hellgate i hardly touch anymore, and Mass Effect i hardly even started playing, and don't want to play it anymore. You know one thing that, as far as i know, ties the majority of the games i listed together? lack of a playable demo. Crysis and CoD4 are the only ones i can think of that had demo's. UT3 may have... but i don't remember it if it did.

    As i mentioned... i do pirate games on occasion.... the vast majority of the time being if that game does not have a playable demo. I get the feeling your arguement might be "Watch gameplay trailers and read reviews".... but with how much people's opinions on games vary (take Crysis for example)... and with how much CGI is used in a lot of trailers nowaday... they can't tell you jack. Every game i don't like... i uninstall and delete the files used to install it. I'll even admit that there are some games that i downloaded due to not finding a playable demo anywhere at the time... and haven't played.... and it's still sitting on my hard drive wasting space. Only one i can know of off the top of my head that's doing so.

    If you ask me... EA should take the ALTERNATE route... and release a game with ZERO DRM measures, to see how it would fare. Can almost guarantee that it'd sell better than Spore.

    I know you're saying Piracy is a bad thing... but what YOU seem to possibly be failing to see is that this type of DRM isn't only something that mildly turns off the casual gamer who finds out about it.... but it also turns off every single hardcore gamer/computer enthusiast that even hears a HINT about it. Like quite a large number of people... i tend to reformat quite often.... at least once every 3-4 months i'd say... sometimes even more often than that. Was even more frequent when i was running XP, which didn't seem to be able to keep it's performance up as well as Vista does. With XP i was practically formatting and reinstalling on a monthly basis. Buying games with limited numbers of activations.... isn't something that frequent reinstallers see as a perk for buying a game, nor do they see it as a way of stopping piracy.

    Oh... and by the way... Why do you think so many people pirate Windows? because the activation is a freakin nightmare to deal with. I used to use an illegal copy of XP.... and when Vista came out, i bought a legal copy of Vista Ultimate.... because i figured "why not?" When it came time for the second round of having to call MS to validate my copy of Vista... i seriously was thinking "Why don't i just crack the thing and save myself the hassle?" Keep in mind... that the second time i had to call in.... IIRC wasn't even a year after Vista's release.
     
  8. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    I believe at the beginning I did take credit for it as I did write it.
    However, I still do not recall ever advocating piracy or downloading software. If I did somewhere, please point it out, I would like to correct it. I never intended it to state download software, only talk about the truth of what EA/DRM and the activations are about. I do what I feel is right about downloading or not downloading software, I do not advocate others to do anything besides do what they think is right, however I do at times try to correct peoples path to that opinion as many are misinformed, hypocritical, or downright wrong.
     
  9. NoviceRei

    NoviceRei Ancient Guru

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    EA does nothing good for the games that i like tbh.
     
  10. Sash

    Sash Ancient Guru

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    good job EA, do the same for red alert 3 maybe you will go bankrupt :)
     

  11. Black_ice_Spain

    Black_ice_Spain Ancient Guru

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    I only buy games which i want to play online, and if there arent private servers xD

    Oh and i buy FX games because they offer good games at competitive prices.

    60€ its a ****ing RIP-OFF, with two games+selling my vcard, i can get another top videocard, its ****ing crazy, considering that actual games do last 10hours..., wtf? 6€/hour? dont talk about re-playable games, their "replay" its laughable, instead of getting killed in 2shots, im getting killed in one, great replay.... Also games come with bugs, they want me to pay 60€ for a thing with bugs? r they crazy?¿

    Then... optimization, EA for example... its CRAP on it, so i save my money for hardware in order to fix this =).

    They want to become rich with working 2years... glhf, im not helping there.

    Now blame me, saying that im killing programmers etc...


    <- Programmer at work now (well taking a break of work xD).
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  12. weston

    weston Ancient Guru

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    I don't blame you for killing programmers...

    I was going to buy spore, but now with this, I will stay away. I'm not going to download it though. That only further entrenches EA into its position that they need copy protection. Think what would have happened had all the people who downloaded it boycotted the game instead! I'd like to see what EA would do then. It's not that great of a game anyway from what I've seen...
     
  13. RejZoR

    RejZoR Ancient Guru

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    If they'd have a drop of retarded amoebas floating in ther dumb heads, they'd know it would be better to get drunk with cash wasted for protections and just release the game without it. Piracy levels won't change at all, at least those who will buy it will be happy and will probably buy another game again. But they are doing the opposite.
    Piracy clearly didn't change at all, while even actual buyers most probably won't be buying any other game with such crap protection. I'm one of them and i'm just not gonna buy Red Alert 3 because of it. If NFS Undercover will have it, another one bites the dust. I'm certanly not going to support this crap, no way.

    EDIT:
    And i won't be downloading three two either, just to clear this up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  14. Bani

    Bani Master Guru

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    I agree the lines between piracy and a legal copy is blurry. Most of us know that. It is even one of the major factors that allows piracy to exist. You are entitled to a copy of what you already own, and no install limits. Yes I got that....

    As many before you, you make the mistake thinking I am here to defend DRM. So you go through the "why we do this because of DRM" argument. So I will make another futile attempt (my fourth) to say: I do not support the type of DRM used in Spore.

    To be honest with YOU, your entire post is a testimony how pirates try to excuse and legalize their possession of software they have not payed for.

    "Among everyone downloading illegal distributed software, of course the majority own a copy, only a a very few actually "steals" it". This is in few words how your version of the reality is. Everything form top to bottom in your post, consists in making excuses for yourself. Including trying to make me look like the wacko on this forum, which is the ONLY thing you got right. I will tell you why my "fiction" of how many pirates there are, holds more water than yours, further down the road.

    In your defense of your own illegal actions you totally miss the point. The core of the problem I am trying to explain run along these lines.

    To set one fact straight, there ARE software pirates. No one ever denied that in any way. We just do not agree on how many. We only know there is an extensive use of services like warez and torrents, like several 100.000 people downloaded a game like Crysis. We also agree on there is no way to separate who "stole" it and who already own it, and had some sort of legal reason by own national law or so to need another copy.

    So there is piracy. EA among others, use this to their advantage to forward things like DRM. I think we also can agree on that. Yet EA has a right by LAW to use DRM to try "protect" their product. The people participating in this download protest has no LAW to address to, they just fell it is their right to do so. That is the point I trying to put forward.

    As you said, there are titles without any DRM that sold good. But that do not change anything. The only reason those titles are out without DRM, is as you said because those publishers do not see piracy as a problem to their product. There is no way to really draw any conclusions whenever a game sold good bad because of DRM. Since you can not tell the difference if it was a "legal" or pirated version that just got downloaded. It is the lack of ability to control this particularly option to acquire software, that spawns the problems legal customers have to deal with. So legal customers decide then decide to turn to this sites to get around the DRM problem, just spins up the pace of a evil circle. It is awkward indeed.

    You can justify how you use torrent services and so, all day. Yet you will have nothing to show for if this is ever taken to trial by EA. All you got, is a very high number of people that have downloaded illegal distributed copyrighted software from somewhat Grey zoned sites. Which I would really not brag all that much of.

    I fail to see how "download Spore" protest is going to be good, in any way. No one can really answer that, they can only excuse them self, trying to justify their use of suspicious download services. Which looks more like an attempt trying to cover your own back than give the "protest" some actual credibility. And that is the core of the problem I am trying to explain. EA will become the victim in this "protest" not the people participating, who see them self as victims.

    That is a problem for us customers, ether you download software illegal or not. You will have to acknowledge that. It does not matter if there are 1 pirate ship or 10. All that matters is that EA takes advantage of the situation, and cry pirates by implementing loco DRM to screw customers with the LAW in their hands. People who sparked this "protest" have not thought it through, and people join up because they are feed up with DRM use. It is a very unfortunate situation for all but EA.


    As to my "fiction" and misapprehension of how many illegal / pirate down loaders there are out there. Several factors have changed since the days of the floppy disk.

    First, our storage space on PC has vastly increased since those days. Even so the software itself has increased in since, we now have a sickening amount of space to put software on, prior to the floppy era. The average Joe can have software for 1000 and 1000$ worth, stored on his computer, which is not on the original storage device he bought / pirated it from.

    Second, we have moved from dial up services to the broadband era. The speed which data is transfered is mind boggling compared to back then.

    Third, the amount of data and the number in sites which illegal distributed data is available for download, has also skyrocketed.

    Yet even combining all these three alone, you can not say piracy have increased. But when you add human nature to these three factors, things change.

    To "steal" or in some way try to acquire something that you do not have / should not have in the first place is a natural thing for a human to do. What limit this from escalating out of control, is we have intellectual property acknowledge, which is part of making us able to distinguish right from wrong.
    I agree that it is by no means fun to be looked as as a potential law breaker, but it is a quit common thing in our society, we just really do not take all that much notice of it.

    From a morally standpoint, I would say copyright / infringement is somewhat equivalent to theft. In ether of those cases you brake the law non the less.
    It becomes somewhat irrelevant in the big picture, if you already own what you intend to steel. What is relevant is in someones eyes you brake the law, and that will at some point create a reaction.

    That is reflected throughout our entire modern society. For about every door that exists there is a lock, or several on that door for that matter. Cars and private houses has alarms, so does shops and it is a matter of time before everyone has it. Security cameras, all oaround us. Merchandise which has security triggers installed, so you can not take it out of the shop. And even so, at some point we will go even further to prevent the loss of what we see as our property. I could go on forever.

    This is human society. We have a police to maintain the law, there is even a comity to watch over the police. Same for taxes, we have a control department that prevent people from not paying their taxes. And again there is another group of people that looks after the tax department, politicians, social support. It is all being monitored to prevent human from exploiting it. Layer upon layers of security. It does not give a honest picture of the average Joe, does it ? No, average Joe is expected at some point to see a possibility where he will exploit something to his own advantage. Human nature....


    Yet my dear ElementalDragon, you say that my "fiction" of amount of pirates is wrong. Well what you try to argue forward, is that once people get behind their PC, they become ****ing Saints. And totally deviate from human nature, even so the endless possibilities to get something for free, rather than paying for it is available to them more now than ever before.

    What you also have to take into consideration is, yes, piracy have existed for quite some time. But that only makes it more acceptable for the average Joe to do piracy. It really justifies nothing at all.

    More so, to think all what have happened last years, down to this very argue about piracy. Downright piracy get the blame for lot of things these days. To believe that developers / publishers blame on piracy just fell out of thin air, is quite naive. Which I do not think you are. You are defending something that you have seen as your right to do so, yet now it has become huge problem.

    We as a PC community of gamers, can not just continue ignore this, EA certainly is not going to solve it. The industrie as a whole is suffering from this issue, yet no one want to give an inch to get the matter solved. And that again point backs to why I mean this Spore "protest" is the wrong approach.
     
  15. Chock

    Chock Ancient Guru

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    sorry but i am not infesting my pc with drm ****. and to be honest spore is one of the most overrated games ever. you cant even create simple creatures like bugs or spiders. at least not without seriously compromising the looks. so i played spore to the last stage and then alt f4'ed and deleted that crappy game.
     

  16. deathvirus

    deathvirus Ancient Guru

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    Compare TES 4 Oblivion to this :p .. no protection made it sell more than this sh** DRM :p ... and they blame piracy :p .. thats to it, people gotta appreciate how good Spore is :p when will some stupid business "people" learn ..
     
  17. sava700

    sava700 Ancient Guru

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  18. Nihilkrist

    Nihilkrist Master Guru

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    I bought Spore, I now wish I hadn't. It was a terrible game, easy, repetitive and downright dull.

    They basically just made it into a crappy, "run around tapping 1-4 on your keypad" RPG-wannabe. Instead of earn XP, upgrade stats it's just eat ****, "upgrade" body parts. And completely redesign your creature anytime you want. Where's the friggin' evolution in that?

    What happened to micro managing a single cellular organism's ascent to celestial enlightenment? To watching the lil' blighters grow and adapt to their environment? It's just a gimmick-laden third person RPG EA bought and rushed out to get some quick cash.

    Please, pirate away, boycott it, whatever. Just stop talking about it, EA are probably loving the free publicity, yet another chance for them to shout how numerous and terrifying the pirates are.
     

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