Do you think this forum needs to be closed?

Discussion in 'RivaTuner Advanced Discussion forum' started by Unwinder, Oct 23, 2007.

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  1. Deliverator

    Deliverator Guest

    Capt Proton, first off, qualifying others' grammar is considered a weak attempt at offending especially on the internet. I should note, however, that you at least know proper grammar yourself, but that's a rarity on this forum; on that basis you could lecture everyone here, including and not limited to Unwinder.

    As for Truthteller's post, I disagree with most of what he said. I particularly like the line "You're just an everyday programmer like the rest of us", because I don't know about you guys, but I'm not exactly a programmer, and I'm not sure how many of you are true programmers.

    I also like blind self-righteous assumptions, such as "I personally believe Guru has contacted you about your attitude and I think you should receive this as a wake-up call."

    About everything else he said, my opinion is along the lines of "sticks and stones..." And he's talking about being rude, pots, kettles and black, all spring to mind.
     
  2. DAMAFIA

    DAMAFIA Master Guru

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    Been usin riva since i had a mmx440 lol and almost all probs ive had have been solved with a quick search mybe jus lucky its all out ther jus have to look. You deffo have the right idea stickin to gettin your stuff dun not wastin time answerin the same old questions all the time it must be like a million 3year old kids who say why after everything u say. Hope u find a balence cos this is a bit of software i could not do with out.

    ps the new streamprocesser slider rules.keep it up bud
     
  3. Grandpa01

    Grandpa01 New Member

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    Sorry to see you will no longer be answering it will be a great loss to the forum. What allot of people fail to see is that with all of the work and changes you do on RT without you answering the questions there will be no real support. By the time some body figures out how to make RT xxx work A new RT xxxx version will be out and the version they just figured out how to use will be obsolete.

    I do understand your decision to quit the forum support, and the responses some posted in the thread really angered me and I do not know that my decision would have been any different than yours. Hopefully you will reconsider and continue posting answers where you feel they are needed so that some of us can figure out how to implement and use the changes.
     
  4. UnclePappi

    UnclePappi Banned

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    Wow.
     

  5. UnclePappi

    UnclePappi Banned

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    RTFM noob.
     
  6. Misha

    Misha New Member

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  7. Grandpa01

    Grandpa01 New Member

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    RTFM noob.

    I have and have ask no questions. What about you
     
  8. UnclePappi

    UnclePappi Banned

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    I was just picking up where Unwinder left off proving that the forum can still be moderated.


    *Actually I was just being an ass as I think Unwinder is taking to heart something only a couple people are saying. It's not the opinion of the community as a whole. Punish a 100,000 people over the actions of 5 people? I don't get the reasoning.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2007
  9. DES_MX

    DES_MX Master Guru

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    I am not sure if Unwinder will even look at this thread again in the future, or code the app in the same manner he did.

    I have been using RivaTuner since the times of RivaTNT, (hence the name), and have faced many, many problems. Yet, i haven't posted a single (!) time any stupid, lazy, ignorant question, for all my questions were answered sooner or later (if not already), through forums, a new release or a command line code/script. Even during the times of the new revision of the 6800's (which were still AGP at the moment, but couldn't get the conveyors unlocked in the regular fashion) i have patiently waited and followed the thread, since there were users with exactly the same problem.

    What most people just do not understand or maybe just do NOT WISH/WANT to understand is that he is spending his FREE time on helping YOU users out. I specifically use definition "users", because "noobs" or "newbies" just doesn't quite cut it. There are people with different backgrounds on these forums, and in no way the amount of posts decides whether you're a noob, or not.

    To continue on the subject, consider this:
    You come home after long day of work, finally to relax, grab a beer/watch football/sit in front of your pc/have a good time with your lady, and just kick back and enjoy. Now this man instead of doing just that, spends hours of his time coding RivaTuner, FOR FREE. Not just that, but he patiently answers your ****** questions, one by one, on and on.

    Is he right by being rude sometimes? Probably not.

    But is he supporting the community with new features and new releases? He certainly is, and has been doing that for years.

    And are you in turn supporting HIM? Come now, show some respect. Not just by saying "thanks, you're great", but by giving him a brake and using you brain for one. Yeah, the search function is a good start. A very good start.
    General logic too.

    Maybe there's a switch somewhere in your heads, that needs to be flipped. I suggest you flip it. Before it's too late, and he stops developing RT either publicly or free of charge.

    I for one would like to apologize on behalf of these users, even if they would never consider doing that. As a part of this forum it does feel very disappointing to read such threads.
     
  10. mjamil85

    mjamil85 Member

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    Ya, I agree with Unwinder. It's now easy to develop the program. I always thank full to Unwinder develop the RT that can help the user make more performance for they PC & graphic. In this forum, Unwinder must know what the problem that user have. That can help Unwinder to made more improvement & fix the problem in the new version. Also some for other developer like example NVIDIA company. Everyday that have a complaint & problem for there new driver. How there want to know how fix this problem? Simple, must get more information & complaint from NVIDIA user. If Unwinder rude ur question, u also must understand that I also get fire from him but I still understand he have a problem in middle of something. I hope all the member of Guru3D & RivaTuner user must respect to Unwinder what situation that he have & just made discussion in peace.
     

  11. ogheeren

    ogheeren Master Guru

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    I think nobody doubt this, but that is no reason for such a behaviour. Telling people they are noobs is just bashing and RTFM is no answer at all, this should be assumed. I wouldn't spend a second of my freetime to give such an answer.

    Not probably, just not.

    Of course he is doing a great job with rt, and as far as I can see noone criticise rt itself but his behaviour. I show respect to people who show respect to others. He doesn't, at least not to the "puny noobs".
    I think there should flip a switch in unwinders brain too. But "Decisions have been made, don't criticise me anymore" said the mighty ruler of the universe... ;) No, just kidding, decide as you like, it is your tool and your time to spend, it is your right to do as you like. And these were my last thoughts to this topic.

    But again, rt is a great tool, keep up the good work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2007
  12. mR Yellow

    mR Yellow Ancient Guru

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    I was absoluty shocked reading some of these posts..especially truthtellers!
    Unwinder is doing this as a favour. He doesn't have to do it but yet he does even when ppl don't appreciate it.

    Unwinder aint rude. Put yourself in his shoes. How many ppl use RT? Imagine how much mail he gets, all with the same questions. Peolpe don't bother reading release notes or forum post.

    Anyways, i for one will miss this tool if the development was ever stopped.

    Thanx for the great app.

    mRYellow
     
  13. bliss007

    bliss007 Banned

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    No the Forums should stay open as its needed.

    Yes Unwinder needs help to Mod this Forum as he is short tempered with users and we know some are newbies who ask the same Questions that he has answered a 1000x before and its a PIA.


    His work is great but people skills not so great (although has always been good to me) so get some good peeps to do most of the Mod'ing here.
     
  14. Misha

    Misha New Member

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    I would just like to make one last reply to this thread because some of its subject matter points to what I consider a very interesting issue.

    From reading the posts there are basically two camps: one feels that an RTFM and similarly invective kinds of replies are justified. They cite as a basis for this that RT is free and that Mr. Unwinder volunteered his time and effort. Therefore there is no boundary or constraint between a polite response or an abrasive one; either is ok and any tone is ok. Presumably,this is acceptable because no compensation was required, and/or in the opinion of Mr. Unwinder the post demonstates ignorance about his software and a lack of motivation on the part of the poster to use the resources available and find the answer for themself. The other camp feels that there is indeed a baseline level of treatment and that neither the free and voluntary nature of the RT enterprise nor ignorance and a lack of selfmotivation on the part of posters removes the boundary or loosens the constraint between the polite and the invective. The basis for this is that the treatment of others is not predicated on conditions, that ethical relativism has no place in the kind of interaction that takes place in this forum, and that there is indeed an ethical transgression that occurs with RTFM-like replies (it's not unreasonable to think that the subjects of such replies would feel maligned and indignant). Therefore, such replies are not justified, even if a resolution to a problem can be found in the manual, searching the forum, or in the FAQ.

    Now let's suppose RT was not free. Would the folks in the first camp still feel that RTFM-like replies are still justified? If the answer is yes you're still in the same place: your position is that there is no minimal standard of propriety to obey when interacting with people. And if the answer is no then virtue has a pricetag. In either case, is that the way to be?
     
  15. Crisao23

    Crisao23 Member

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    People who doesn't seek answers to their problems or doesn't know how to fill up a search form before posting unuseful stuff doesn't need access to an advanced tech forum.

    Rivatuner is not a basic app, people should read before using it and of course, using the EXTENSIVE help provided by the program itself.

    When I started using it, during my MX400 days, I learned a lot about video cards and related functions/settings by reading Rivatuner's help.

    Today we aren't using dial up and the most advanced search engines are available, wikipedia, lots of articles, sites, pdf docs and so on.

    I'm used to provide tech help at a brazilian Battlefield series community and I can say that most people there behave at the exact same way as Unwinder described.

    When you tell them to use Google or "search before you ask", you're called names, you receive the same treatment as Unwinder received.

    He does everything FOR FREE. The software is AMAZING, it's a solution for "n" problems and needed in order to enhance your 3D performance in an easy way. I would PAY for it, because it's the result of a lot of time and hardwork.

    There's a time for polite answers to lazy people, but after all these years, no one can tell Unwinder to repeat the same answers again and again. That's why you have a help file and a solid base of software users, forums, a 100+ "tweakguides" that are based on Rivatuner.

    Unwinder, keep up the great work.
     

  16. Devolution

    Devolution Ancient Guru

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    Last I check, Unwinder is qutie friendly if you actually try to look up the answer first. It REALLY IS NOT THAT HARD TO USE THE SEARCH COMMAND.

    Open search command, type what you want in it, and press enter. Assuming the query is accurate, problem solved. If the query pops up, and is a bunch of random posts/threads, then perhaps OPEN THEN and read through it quickly. 9/10 times, the answer to your post is in one of those random threads. It is VERY RARE that there is a question that is NOT ACTUALLY ANSWERED.

    Unwinder has mentioned again and again in posts, the readme, and version history .txt that FAN SUPPORT IN VISTA IS NOT THERE. Yet people STILL ask that question even though it is addressed in the FREAKING README AND VERSION HISTORY that comes with the program. Stuff like that is probably what frustrates the guy and I can't help but empathize.

    Let's not forget, like whatshisface said, RT is FREE and Unwinder does not HAVE to do this at all. Show a little more gratitude people and a little more assbearing, especially Truthteller, who posted his only post for his joke account for the sole purpose of slamming Unwinder. I'm guessing he is a banned user.
     
  17. F1refly

    F1refly Ancient Guru

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    lol, see there you go again, you did good at the start and should have ended it there, but then you just had to put in that last line to satisify yourself i guess? anyway, if your no longer working on the forum as you say then stop responding to posts and let us manage the responses.:knock:

    hard or not isnt the point, you cant force people to search and telling individuals over n over does absolutly nothing but waste time, i could say its not hard to post links or copy/paste...for me its not, but i cant force it nor should i care.
    yep, waste of time wasnt it, did you learn anything?
    imagine what companies who have support staff go through like HP or dell for instance
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2007
  18. Dilburt

    Dilburt New Member

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    Unwinder,

    I've been a software developer all my life. I've started several successful software companies and have worked with or employed hundreds of developers so I recognize the talent that a program like RivaTuner represents. Beyond that you clearly understand the dynamics of software adoption with your plug-in architecture allowing many others to assist in the capabilities RT can provide. You are obviously a very senior developer, probably a driver architect and have likely been responsible for some very amazing products in your life - outside of RivaTuner.

    I know what it means to create a piece of software and to watch it grow and become popular like RivaTuner has and I know what this means to the developer who has created it. But luckily for me, I've never had to directly support my own software like you have had to but I can understand what a frustrating and thankless job that could be.

    However, if you give up direct support in the user forums it's only going to be RivaTuner that suffers from this. The people who have been wasting your time will simply go on wasting time one way or the other. You can't change people so don't bother trying.

    The bottom line of all this is a suggestion I have for you:

    Simply ignore the useless posts and focus on the users who are trying to play by the rules and who are helping RivaTuner in the market.

    I think this will help to eliminate much of the frustration and wasted time on your part without damaging RivaTuner's ability to grow and thrive from beneficial user feedback.

    Best of luck,

    - D
     
  19. Bo_Fox

    Bo_Fox Active Member

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    If we close the forum, we let the flamers win.
     
  20. Phalkon30

    Phalkon30 Ancient Guru

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    I'm not going to go deep into this conversation, but I do have a suggestion. I've been reading a lot of forums for linux distros, and a lot of times the developer will appoint somebody to moderate the forum, and filter out actual bugs or needs for actual help and pass them onto the dev. That way the dev can still have community input, but does not have to be extremely active in the forums.

    Of course this would take an assistant who has time, and a good amount of knowledge/patience. In a lot of cases however, it does work very well.

    I don't think many people doubt you know what you're talking about, in fact I'm somewhat surprised that either of the major graphics companies have offered you a job, but either way, you can't do it all.
     
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