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do modern games still use OpenGL? want to buy surface pro X

Discussion in 'Laptops & Notebooks' started by potatochobit, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. potatochobit

    potatochobit Active Member

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    hello
    so I am wondering whether or not to get a surface pro X
    but the one thing is that it runs an ARM processor, not intel.
    so what that means is, it cannot run OpenGL but it can run directX
    does it even matter anymore?
     
  2. K.S.

    K.S. Maha Guru

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    Was just reading up on this

    https://liliputing.com/2018/02/microsoft-explains-some-things-that-windows-10-on-arm-wont-do.html

    Regarding "Windows for ARM" it's operating on a limited X86 emulation layer using ARM. The link above specifies to what extent it supports. While OpenGL and Vulkan aren't "restricted" in any sense from running on ARM - (Surface X platform + ARM w/th emu layer) is restrictive.

    The problem lies in said APIs tied to whatever apps you'd want to run. The last "officialy supported" revision of OpenGL MS lists for this platform is 1.1; that is nuts. I can only assume it runs in software mode without any hardware-acceleration. Meaning no official support for Vulkan too I'd imagine as that API is based off of OpenGL. Games generally use the most recent revision of any "known" API and utilize hardware-acceleration.

    Unless you need the added battery life, I wouldn't buy the Surface Pro X. If you're a developer it sounds like a huge pain in the ass. For gaming I don't see the appeal; anything you run is likely emulated, unless it's in ARM binary. This usually creates a loss in performance - but who knows - maybe the implementation of their hypervisor is very impressive. The Windows kernel, hardware drivers, and all programs included with Windows are native ARM code. Take note of what apps you use the most and if their ARM binary or X86. That should impact your decision here the most.

    Update: Alright so - after some further reading Windows for ARM ships with native support for DX 9 - 12 for ARM binary; no emu required. However the catch is if the app, like a game as you mentioned is developed for X86 and requires DX 9 - 12 the vanilla version of DX-ARM will run it of-course but WIN-ARM emulate the application (the game) excluding the api - sorry if sounds confusing. MS boasts their emulation layer is very thin and performs well. Hard to find reviews on this subject honestly. Not much info out there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
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  3. SweenJM

    SweenJM Master Guru

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    Why not an x86 based surface? Solves the problem nicely.
     
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  4. potatochobit

    potatochobit Active Member

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    thanks for the replies
    I did go ahead and order an i5 surface pro 7 8GB model just now
    I hope it comes with the iris plus graphics but I'm not 100% on this
    I am sure the i3 will not have the iris graphics
     
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  5. K.S.

    K.S. Maha Guru

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    You're good to go' Core i5 and Core i7 models have more advanced Intel Iris Plus graphics
     
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  6. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    only game "recent" i know about that runs opengl is doom (2016) I would think if system runs dx your fine
     
  7. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    And somehow I don't think an ARM machine would be able to run this at acceptable speeds, emulation mode or not.
     
  8. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Doom 2016, Opengl > Vulkan
    No Mans Sky > Openal > Vulkan
    Mobius Final Fantasy

    ...and anything else recent is some sort of platformer / shovelware or a remaster by Square Enix.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  9. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    No god no. Kill it with fire and lets hope no game will ever use it again.
     
  10. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    @Undying
    OpenGL is a good API when it supported correctly, AMD's support for OpenGL is leaves a whole lot to be desired, which why difference in performance from OpenGL to Vulcan is night and day on AMD vs OpenGL to Vulcan on Nvidia. Nvidia actual supported OpenGL AMD half assed it and left alot features and functions missing. Most devs will say it better to use DX over OpenGL on AMD if you have choice for the reason alone

    Even DX11 to DX12 performance on AMD showed more gains vs DX11 to DX12 on Nvidia cause NVIDIA had better optimization in place then AMD did for DX11 so people cried why are the gains better on AMD and alot people just completely ignored that reason as to why even though they were told why.

    And API performance is only as good as its support and implementation of it.
     

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