Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by Macer, Oct 31, 2022.
Disable it and check games that used to stutter for example and see if any improvement is visible.
Im starting to think that MPO is not disengaged while screenrecording, instead something else is disengaged i know when you are screenrecording fps locks at 144 fps at 144hz while not screenrecording it lets fps go past 144 fps.
You would not notice this when forcing vsync
Also forcing vsync causes picture in picture on primary monitor to cause game to run at locked 66 fps while forcing vsync off it leaves the game alone, atleast with MPO disabled.
did AMD just break vsync enchanced sync etc even more, im getting more confused every day, its not like i am a programmer and can debug everything and see what happens under the hood.
but firefox does not like it when vsync is on even if only in game, is vsync or similar tech aplied wrong way with MPO causing it to run out of sync and cause stutter with MPO and all other issues ?
MPO basically separates different layers of rendering. And yes, they can conflict for synchronisation rate, which happens frequently.
Tested. Driver crash with BDO and screen recording wasn't fixed. Time to test other stuff, i guess. Maybe there will be less cases of game freezing when alt-tabbing?
Hmm... when i launch overlayed Adrenaline on top of Warframe it becomes flickering MESS. Holy sh**. Can someone test this in other games? But i do have MPO enabled (as freewilled tester basically)... UPD: Second time it became... better? Not as much flickering, only on transitions. Strange. . . Hmm...
UPD2: Seems like my first impression didn't fail me, i stopped seen playback catchback (like frame by frame fast forward) when switching from game to 4k60 video on Youtube (now only happen iof you switch from tab without video to tab with video)... They definitely did something with synchronisation in 22.11.1
Currently testing setting VSync/Enchanced Sync to be globally off... May have worked as way to make games not stuck in wrong memory power state? Need more incidents for test, but worth my attention.
Strangely hadn't met even single instance of game freezing after alt-tabbing.
Suspicious. As if memory power state applies correctly?
I think i figured out why i had no blackscreens with MPO on before on 10 bit color depth, and then enabled it again and had blackscreens.
I had a theory that blackscreens where triggered because of broken sync behaviour so i remember if you have a 144hz display and force vsync, its only engaged at 144 fps so this what i setup at the time i had no blackscreens on 10 bit color depth.
I forced vsync on
i set rtss to limit fps to 140 so vsync cannot engage.
And now im starting to think if you force vsync off and limit fps 4 frames or maybe 5 frames below refresh rate, sync behaviour wont happen so vsync wont engage or enchance sync wont change state etc, blackscreens will not happen either.
If some one wants to test this theory go ahead, its very easy to test, i recommend some one that can trigger blackscreens really fast to test this.
Im quite confident i had no blackscreens before on 10 bit color depth i just forgot i also limit fps to 140 and forced vsync on at the time in a way it cannot engage.
Im willing to bet now that vsync control is what is broken, and AMD managed to bring over enchanced sync bugs to normal vsync control
force vsync on
and inside rtss
Set framerate limit 4 preferably 5 fps below your refresh rate on global, this way sync behavior will remain consistent and wont just randomly change, and leave freesync on
This what i setup when i had no more blackscreens on 10 bit color depth.
I never tested this at 8 bit color depth cos i did that on my main install instead on my custom install on my usb stick, cos i wanted to only install gpu drivers and rtss
at some point i forgot i made these changes to.
So im guessing vsync being on even outside amd control panel like a game causes this blackscreen behaviour it needs to be off everywhere probably to fix, alternatively limiting fps by 5 below refresh rate prevents it from engaging and causing blackscreens im guessing.
Im to tired to test this again.
Also if you setup any custom tdr values i recommend removing those just make the system freeze instead.
Im gonna sleep now gn
edit: i woke up so i decided to check and forcing vsync off whatsapp video call resizing does not appear glitchy aka ruber banding aka you make window big but video feed is resizing at a slower delay then the window.
But as soon as i force vsync and do video call the video feed resizes in slow motion while i resize the window rapidly and the same if i make it smaller it shrinks in slow motion.
I think vsync is breaking MPO as well now
Some one test while forcing vsync how it effects blackscreens but also flickering issues
edit2: Copy paste from another comment to add further info
globally forcing on vsync or leaving vsync on by aplication preference and then enabling enchanced sync same issues, but if you globally force of vsync and then turn on enchanced sync there are no issues either, so enchanced sync can work without these issues if configured correctly.
edit3: while forcing vsync off globally screenrecording no longer drops fps to 144 fps while recording, it seems that MPO never disengages while screenrecording instead its engaging vsync.
This also happens when alt tabbing.
Atleast while vsync controls are left at defaults.
edit4: its gonna sound crazy but im gonna test if this actually fixes MPO blackscreens and enable MPO again, it would not surprise me if it did
I also think this is the result if vsync engaging 2 times aka double vsync instead of vsync once so once at the game level another time at the MPO level now imagine also enchanced sync on top so double vsync and another enchanced sync altho the later does not increase latency engaging vsync even once already does probably and that is what is probably broken.
MPO probably runs of its own vsync on top of vsync already being on.
edit 5: MPO is enabled steam hardware accelerated web views is enabled, NO MORE FLICKERING! this is with forcing vsync off globally and then enabling enchanced sync!!!!!!!!!
edit 6: NO MORE STUTTERING! while dragging whatsapp video call window this was always a sign of a blackscreen about to trigger!
edit 7: no blackscreens triggered even tho i am in video call for 20 minutes.
edit 8: seems to not fix blackscreens and stuttering can happen after a couple of minutes, but seems to fix flickering issues i guess its defiantly vsync related windows must be in control of vsync or it blackscreen, i already tested screenrecording on desktop to fix blackscreens in the past, however its not disengaging vsync its rather engaging vsync.
Also vsync for some reason is engaging 2 times. by the looks of it, does Nvidia not have increased latency being reported currently as well ?
edit 9: maybe enchanced sync is broken as well and causing this, i will test later need make sure i have no issues again with MPO disabled to rule out other problems interfearing with configuration
edit10: alternatively globally forcing on vsync and then limiting fps to 140 fps on 144hz display via rtss or 236 fps with 240hz display for example may prevent blackscreens as well but i am not sure if flickering would still happen on steam point shop with hardware acceleration.
edit 11: i started experiencing minor freezes again when alt tabbing every now and then so if disabled enchanced sync as before enabling this if had no minor freezes to rule out potential culprit to blackscreens if kept MPO disabled for now will test further later when i know im not having any other issues.
Yeah, for my time being forcing VSync off hadn't made VRAM to be in always ON power state. No, i can still get it to power off (even though timing is longer?) But i hadn't met situation when alt-tab froze my game permanently... Yet.
I will look harder for few more days, then enable Enchanced sync back (it is still almost normal VSync besides unlocked FPS part) and see if my games begin to permafreeze again
But i can 100% confirm that they did something with Youtube video playback. It actually now stopped catching up if i swap between game and Chrome with video
I am not using Enchanced sync to get locked FPS either way... It have freaking benefits in many games i play. But overally potentially intersting workaround, i guess?
Actually... i hadn't noticed tearing from VSync issues in ages. Is it even worth to use?
I think it defaults to in-game settings. Like it forces VSync in BDO, but runs with unlocked FPS in Warframe
UPD there... i messed up, i had game specific enchanced sync allowed to run for BDO
Im starting to think that AMD replaced normal vsync with enchanced sync but vsync on just caps fps at 144 fps at 144hz, while enchanced sync on toggle fixes it.
And for some reason screenrecording is toggling old vsync cos i already tested in the past a couple of hours like 4 hours doing whatsapp video call that triggers blackscreen under 2 minutes normally.
So what i think so far
AMD replaced vsync control with enchanced sync except turning on caps fps at refresh rate.
Default vsync off is broken
Forcing vsync off is incompatible with MPO
Enchanced sync is also still broken least with MPO off causing minor alt tab freezes cos it probably doing funky bandaid while alt tabbing.
Reason i think they did this is so they can shift blame on Microsoft in hopes they fix it, im pretty sure AMD broke it and im pretty sure Microsoft aint that naive.
Eitherway what i found so far is forcing vsync off fixes some drag lag and slow motion resize bug, and MPO flickering issues to atleast for me, but it does not fix blackscreens.
If also tryit testing forcing vsync and capping fps at 115 at 10 bit color depth re create the circumstances i had when i also had 3 hours of no blackscreens doing video call in whatsapp, at first when the video call starts it lags for 2 or 3 seconds a little bit but then stays smooth all the time, cos at 115 fps vsync wont normally toggle, so i guess this is the only way to fix it but its unreliable i think it probably still blackscreens every couple of hours but not every 2 minutes anymore like forcing vsync off would do, and normally i would force on vsync and leave it off in games.
Im more intrested in what is causing all these MPO issues, when you disable hardware acceleration i wonder if vsync even can engage at a gpu driver level and it probably cannot, which is why its causing all these issues with it on, cos the driver is in charge of vsync things break, os is in charge everything is fine.
Anyway i think AMD is just trying to make it Microsoft problem in hopes they help them fix it or optimise it for their tech, i don't see why they would force all users with these issues to do so, they could just communicate with Microsoft and show some cash and get it all working the way they want.
How did you get this specific conclusion, again? I don't even have good idea how to test out MPO specifically.
For me it seems that forcing VSync off solves one nasty game freezing issue i had for quite some time.
Because default vsync control + enchanced sync has proven that for some reason vsync gets engaged during screen recording with amd relive, god knows why but this seems to fix blackscreens as well altho not as reliably, while forcing vsync does not cos vsync that being forced on is different and broken, while vsync that is engaged during screen recording is not.
Anyway if you dont like forcing off vsync you can still cap fps globaly with rtss as amd radeon software fps limiter is outdated and less accurate
@Cp0 here is how MPO works. Was linked by someone on AMD forum
UPD: Link was referred as not providing actual and detailed information.
That just makes me even more suspecios of AMD having done something with default vsync control as if enchanced sync is turned on by default that but that would mean my system freezes wheren't caused by enchanced sync
never link this gibberish again, its nonsense and a compilation of web posts compiled by a bot into an attempt of an article.
Is there an article that explains it properly at all currently ?
Any other source site? Intel is so direct with their following of government law, that i cannot even see text content from Russia.
So, well, i link sources that are more achievable for me. Sorry if they are not what people expect them to be.
I provided info about shady info below link i posted.
I had a gpu driver timeout aka tdr during wow session after 3 hours and then after 2 3 minutes blackscreen i look in registery and MPO is enabled again wtf, feels like i am a guinee pig and Microsoft / AMD is hacking in my system re enabling MPO, i don't remember removing it, could a bios update or downgrade cause it to remove registery value perhaps ?
If seen some really nasty MPO glitches now as well now after i blackscreened with MPO enabled it self since i globally force vsync off
edit: seems if found a new way to test blackscreens just play wow force vsync globally off with MPO on probably works with any game, im curious if others that never had MPO issues can reproduce it, cos that may mean it is limited based on type of monitor.
I have an LG 38WN95C 3840x1600 144 hz display im running 120hz tho right now 10 bit color autohdr on since HDR is finally useable.
edit: blackscreen triggered really fast after an alt tab with vsync globally forced off, i know if you leave vsync on at default control and enchanced sync on vsync engages normally when alt tabbing to desktop cos fps limits to refresh rate in background of the game, while it does not when globally forcing off vsync, its not supose to do that, it also engages vsync during screen recording, i do not know if this is an windows 11 bug or driver bug.
edit 3: im keeping logs right now of all changes i make and things that happen right now so i can figure out whats causing what, and i know i did not remove MPO disable registery value it did that by it self, last thing i did was go back to agesa 1207 after a system freeze.
Your observations aren't unique it seems. As well as mine. We all came to the conclusion, that vsync is just broken and conflicting mess right now and must be fixed. And it seems that enchanced sync doesn't change background default vsync behaviour. Just technically unlocks FPS cap. I do remember having drag lag before. As if i opened too many stuff and my cursor was moving like in oil
P.S. His original topic was wiped by moderator as violating rules of r/AMD, as he posted this topic separately and not within megathread
Also uff... someone got pissed off
Just for the record, I play with AMD leaving VSync Off unless app enables (and I do enable it in game) and I have MPO enabled, and I don't have any blackscreening or other issues, on either my 6800M laptop or 5700XT desktop. SAM enabled. AMD cpus.
Tried to do vsync always on enchanced sync
That 144 hz is not what supposed to happen. And especially not with 0 mHz VRAM IN F**CKING GAME WITH ACTIVE MOVEMENT! What was more surprising is there was no lag in-game.
UPD: More fun!
1) That is how it is supposed to be with Enchanced sync and with unlocked FPS (and it is unlocked). Or with vsync being off.
2) Alt-tab out and back to game. Vsync is forced. Press printscr... FPS becomes unlocked, WTF!
3) Alt-tab out and back again. VSync is again forced. Open overlay. Close overlay. FPS is now unlocked
4) VSync is being constantly forced on when overlay is active. Even if game is currently in FPS unlocked state
P.S. If you disable Enchanced sync, then you will not get constant switching between locked and unlocked FPS.
I will try this again. It was my default settings, but i got random permafreeze in games sometimes. But after checking vsync to force off once, it seemed that i stopped having such issues for some reason... Strange