DirectX 12

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by trocio2, Mar 7, 2014.

  1. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Because Nvidia and even moreso AMD have better software support for Windows and DirectX.

    If it was as easy as you believe then everyone would be doing it.
     
  2. Espionage724

    Espionage724 Guest

    The only reason I feel makes developers stick with DirectX is because it's a complete API (input, audio, renderer). And that it's also included with things like XNA. And major game engines (Source, Unreal, CryEngine) were DX-only as well (as for why, I assume it was because gaming on other platforms wasn't really a widespread concern in the past).

    Although now that I say that, that probably proves your point about having less work to do.

    If you want to get a game out the door and have minimal tech support questions, a popular game engine with DX is probably the way you'd go. Most developers tend to go this route.

    If you want to have a game reach a large potential audience and are willing to accept the possibility of having a wide variety of tech support questions (like why doesn't anti-aliasing 8x work on Linux with kernel 3.11.5 and open-source radeon driver with Mesa 10.2 dev), then you would probably chose an engine that is cross-platform (can't really think of any major ones that were in the past aside from Unreal Engine 2), or make your own that uses cross-platform APIs (timely). Or, you'd less-restrictive APIs that have "some" kind of cross-platform compatibility (like DX9 and Wine), and just hope for the best.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2014
  3. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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    DX11.1's hardware support only benefits the professional market, general gamers only use 11.1 through 11.
    Last I checked Nvidia cards can run 11.2, considering Microsoft's demo was displayed on a GTX 770:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I5TEpAnuEg

    I'm sure there's a lot of 6xxx card users out there that wish they were receiving DX12 support.
     
  4. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Not even full DX11 support.
    AMD does wonderfull job with multithreading in Mantle, but they skipped it in Direct3D 11 all together.

    [​IMG]


    I reckon that's why Microsoft had to use Nvidia to run DX12 Forza 5.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014

  5. DiceAir

    DiceAir Maha Guru

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    I think all should adopt mantle cause if you need a new os for Directx i can see that fail. Mantle will be 10x better just because you can use pretty much any os obeve windows xp i believe. You should be able to use linux, MAC etc etc for this and just because of that Mantle is a win. If they start making games for linux etc etc i will install linux just because of that. Linux provides you with less overhead and thus faster performance
     
  6. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    DirectX 12 will indeed make lower-level abstraction available (but not mandatory—there will be backward-compatibility with DX11) on existing hardware.
    However, Tamasi explained that DirectX 12 will introduce a set of new features in addition to the lower-level abstraction, and those features will require new hardware.

    So far, Microsoft has mentioned only two DX12 features that will need new hardware:
    new blend modes and something called conservative rasterization,
    which can apparently help with object culling and hit detection.

    http://techreport.com/news/26210/directx-12-will-also-add-new-features-for-next-gen-gpus
     
  7. AyKqT

    AyKqT New Member

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    Let's look at how you will be
     
  8. BenYeeHua

    BenYeeHua Ancient Guru

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    Nope, they said game that coming out in Holiday 2015 will support it.

    So, it can be:
    1.The early access will let some game that coming out in Holiday 2015 support it, when DX 12 api released in Holiday 2015.
    2.The release of DX 12 api will be early than Holiday 2015, so devs can support it early.

    And yup, this can be means that, they will released graphic card that support DX feature_level 12 before DX 12 API or Windows 9 is coming out.
     
  9. thatguy91

    thatguy91 Ancient Guru

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    Yes, but you wouldn't want to spend resources on something that people won't be using after 6 months. You would probably want to have support for 2 years to make it worthwhile. That means still supporting non-GCN with DirectX 12 in 2017.
     
  10. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Might be because Kepler is a derivative of the Fermi architecture. It's not too different from it. On the other hand, AMD's GCN is a radical change from the previous architecture of the 5000 and 6000 series and that explains why you see AMD splitting support for the two in many cases and focusing exclusively on GCN going forward.
     

  11. Sdar

    Sdar Member

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    Well you can compare OpenGL with Direct3d not DirectX, if you want Input, audio and render with Opengl just use SDL.

    Source:http://www.libsdl.org/index.php

    Reasons not to adopt Mantle:

    1.Mantle is not Cross-platform, according to AMD "We are performing a feasibility study to understand when and how we extend Mantle support to *NIX." so no time soon.

    2. Is limited to a subset of AMD cards (GCN), it could be difficult to others vendors to make it compatible with their own cards and there's some alternatives that should work with all vendors (Opengl, Directx12) that gives the same and even more performance than mantle.

    3.Is not an Open Standard.

    4.Opengl can give you 15x more performance today with all graphics vendors (mantle 10x with AMD GCN < Opengl 15x with all vendors)

    Source: http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/opengl-gdc2014/


    I just failed to see how Opengl that works with windows, linux, mac, BSD, android, Ios, some consoles and many other devices could limit audience vs DirectX that is only present in some microsoft platforms.

    Source:http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120709190734/meme/es/images/4/4f/Misc-jackie-chan-l.png
     
  12. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

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    Strike out Android, iOS and consoles, they use OpenGL ES.

    Huh? Direct3D12 is perfectly compatible with feature level 11_1 hardware since it will be available on Xbox One, which uses GCN1.0 architecture and is basically very comparable to Radeon HD 7770/8770 or R7 260, which is a US$100 entry level card.

    No-one is missing anything. Microsoft has decoupled the runtime versions from hardware features since Direct3D 11, so one and single Direct3D 11 runtime and API supports all current hardware down to D3D9 era. This works through the concept of [post=4778417]feature levels[/post] - various D3D9 cards are grouped in feature levels 9_1, 9_2, 9_3 (collectively 10_level_9), then it goes up to 10_0 and 10_1 for D3D10.x class cards, and finally 11_0 and 11_1 for D3D11.x class cards. The API and runtime remains D3D 11.x, the shader models remain SM4.x (with some limitations for 10_level_9) and SM5.0, and the shader language and the compiler remain HLSL.

    Direct3D 11.2 does not add any new feature level, only some optional features to levels 11_0 and 11_1.

    Likewise, Direct3D 12 works on most recent graphics cards that support at least feature level 11_0/11_1 (except for pre-7000 Radeons and pre-Iris Pro Graphics). So Nvidia should and will support Direct3D 12 runtime and the new driver model in Windows 9 for their existing Fermi/Kepler/Maxwell cards, although at feature level 11_0.


    And if there will be feature level 12_0 in some near future, no-one at this time knows exactly which features it will support, or if there will be any feature level 12 compliant cards by the time of Windows 9 release in April 2015 . I bet even Microsoft and Nvidia don't know that right now - which means such new hardware will be released no earlier than Q4 2015, maybe even later, considering their typical design cycle.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
  13. Sdar

    Sdar Member

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    Opengl ES is just a subset of Opengl, if you use Opengl 3.3 to create something without using deprecated functions it'll likely run in any Opengl ES 2 device or it'll require minimal modifications.
     

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